[markelphoenix]

I am confused by the portion where it says the largest benefit anyone can get from Take Aim is their Willpower stat....yet the rules themselves make it sound like, at most, you could get benefit from doing a take aim as last action of a turn and first action of turn, to get a +2....other than that, only way I can see higher, is if you Took Aim, refused to take any other action, Take Aim, refuse to take any other action, etc. To where you forego all actions other than aiming until you reached your Willpower stat in boni.

[Michael Chandra]

That's probably the gist.

[Hobbes]

Think Sniper setting up a shot.  That would be who can take three+ Take Aim actions.  In a typical Shadowrun combat, you're correct, you'll Take Aim once and fire.  Twice if you happen to have a leftover Minor Action at the end of one turn and at the top of another turn. 

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Also bear in mind that the maximum dice bonus from all sources for a skill test is +4.

Even if you have 5+ willpower, you can't gain +5 or more bonus dice from a whole bunch of aiming.

Unless of course, you simultaneously have some penalties to the shot so that the final bonus pool doesn't break the +4 limit...

[Michael Chandra]

Also bear in mind that the maximum dice bonus from all sources for a skill test is +4.

Even if you have 5+ willpower, you can't gain +5 or more bonus dice from a whole bunch of aiming.

Unless of course, you simultaneously have some penalties to the shot so that the final bonus pool doesn't break the +4 limit...

Not under current RAW though. Right now the augmented skill increase is capped at +4, not the dicepool bonus.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Also bear in mind that the maximum dice bonus from all sources for a skill test is +4.

Even if you have 5+ willpower, you can't gain +5 or more bonus dice from a whole bunch of aiming.

Unless of course, you simultaneously have some penalties to the shot so that the final bonus pool doesn't break the +4 limit...

Not under current RAW though. Right now the augmented skill increase is capped at +4, not the dicepool bonus.

It's debatable that there's even a distinction between the two

[Michael Chandra]

Given how we have things that explicitly say they increase your skill rank, and things that explicitly say they add a dicepool modifier, there's a significant difference though. If there was no distinction, an expertise explicitly adds a +3 dice pool bonus, a Spellcasting Focus adds to your Spellcasting dice pool, so the two combined would be capped at +4, while at the same time an expertise and Improved Ability (which boosts your skill) would be capped combined, rather than only facing the cap on the Improved Ability itself.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

specialization and expertise were errata'd so that they WOULDN'T count against the +4 bonus cap.  (they're not giving bonus dice, they're giving additional ranks of the skill.  they're why the skill chart goes to 12, when the max skill rank you can have is 9)

[Michael Chandra]

specialization and expertise were errata'd so that they WOULDN'T count against the +4 bonus cap.  (they're not giving bonus dice, they're giving additional ranks of the skill.  they're why the skill chart goes to 12, when the max skill rank you can have is 9)

Not present in the hotfix errata. The skill chart does mention they mean including spec/expert, but under current RAW they do not raise the skill, and the +4 limit mentioned is explicitly to the skill, aka Improved Ability + Reflex Recorder, not to the dicepool modifier. So unless the full errata have that, right now we're not at that restriction.

[Hephaestus]

I would add to that, the skill chart going to 12 doesn't factor in Aptitude PC, which would make the maximum 13 (max 9 + 1 from Aptitude +3 from Expertise).

[Xenon]

It's debatable that there's even a distinction between the two

For example consider the following: Skills can be modified by dice pool modifiers, but their augmented increase can never be more than +4.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

It's debatable that there's even a distinction between the two

For example consider the following: Skills can be modified by dice pool modifiers, but their augmented increase can never be more than +4.

Right.  Either that sentence is using dice pool modifiers and augmented increases as two distinctly different things, or as two interchangeable terms for the same thing.

[Xenon]

The original text is the thing in italics. It doesn't actually say "dice pool modifiers".
But they might or might not mean it when they say "other effects".
It is debatable. The original rule for reference:

SR6 p. 39 Skills
can be modified by spells, gear, and other effects, but their augmented increase can never be more than +4.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

It is debatable.

That's what I said, too.

Perhaps we agree?

[Xenon]

Yes we do (i copied the text from your reply).

Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't using an exact quote (but that it might or might not be read that way)