[Gareth]

Where can I find out how much damage punching someone does?

[Michael Chandra]

As we've noticed, there's quite a few places in the SR6 CRB where change blindness applied: People never realised a rule was missing (including me, despite having made 1600 notes while going through the book) and it's only implied by some other spots in the rules, so when a newbie asks the question all we can do is go 'uhm, probably X given page Y, but you're right it's missing'.

I'd like to gather a bunch of these, so it's easier to answer those questions. Please feel free to make suggestions so I can add more here, or suggest fixes to what I state. =)

From the top of my head:

Archetypes: These are sample characters you could use. Theoretically these should be chargen-legal, in reality in most editions last-minute tweaks to the rules cause them to not be entirely valid. But still a good thing to start with. =)

Unarmed DV: Implied to be Str/2 by the Natural Weapon power, and Stun by Killing Hands adept power
Essence: Starts at 6 implied by max Magic and essence reduction rules, death at 0 as implied by Essence Loss
Vehicle Soak: Body dice, because that's the soak pool when rammed
Weapon Mounts: manual cost is per mount, not one for all (no exact source)
Cyberlimbs: Only replace Agi/Str, implied by being the only attributes you can upgrade
Attributes: Start at 1 for non-Special, due to racial info chart and 'rank in physical/mental' tidbit page 63
1 Attribute maxed: This doesn't apply to Special Attributes (implied by them not receiving attribute points)

And on the other side, apparently intentional:

Spirits: Not tradition-bound (no tradition-specific statblocks, no restrictions mentioned)

[Gareth]

Thank you,

[SiliconMongoose]

Pg 111, under "Attacker...Damage the Opponent:..." it's mentioned that the "attacker does their unarmed combat damage (Strength/2, rounded up) plus net hits."

Implied that Unarmed Combat Damage is Stun since Bone Lacing and Bone Density augmentations change Unarmed Combat Damage to Physical. Pg 286 and 291, respectively.


All references are from the PDF. I hope this helps. If I have any of this wrong, please let me know, especially since I had to go back through my notes to find these references because I couldn't find them just looking through.

[Gareth]

Pg 111, under "Attacker...Damage the Opponent:..." it's mentioned that the "attacker does their unarmed combat damage (Strength/2, rounded up) plus net hits."

Yeah - but that's specifically a subheading under grappling, so is that unarmed damage or adjusted unarmed damage for putting the hurt on someone you've already grabbed?

[penllawen]

Yeah - but that's specifically a subheading under grappling, so is that unarmed damage or adjusted unarmed damage for putting the hurt on someone you've already grabbed?

Nobody is quite sure, but the current hypothesis / likeliest explanation is:

1) the book was supposed to say somewhere that base unarmed melee damage is (Str/2)S
2) this was left out or lost in an edit
3) there's an orphaned reference to it under the grappling rules

I think all you can do for now is use (Str/2)S. Note that this interacts quite weirdly with melee weapons though, which all have fixed damage codes that do not take Strength into account. A lot of melee combat builds will do more damage with their fists than with any melee weapon.

It is also possible that (Str/2) was intended as special rules for grappling damage and that normal unarmed damage has a fixed damage code. We just don't know right now.

[Michael Chandra]

Pg 111, under "Attacker...Damage the Opponent:..." it's mentioned that the "attacker does their unarmed combat damage (Strength/2, rounded up) plus net hits."

Yeah - but that's specifically a subheading under grappling, so is that unarmed damage or adjusted unarmed damage for putting the hurt on someone you've already grabbed?

Assumption: Unarmed damage.

This missing info is on the list to be fixed by errata.

[Finstersang]

I think all you can do for now is use (Str/2)S. Note that this interacts quite weirdly with melee weapons though, which all have fixed damage codes that do not take Strength into account. A lot of melee combat builds will do more damage with their fists than with any melee weapon.

Side note for the devs and/or errata folks:

"If the Strength of the user is higher than the Damage Code of a Melee or Thrown weapon with a fixed damage code, half of the difference (round up) is added to the Damage Code. This is true for all weapons except those whose damage effect don´t rely on muscular force (f.i. Shock weapons, Monowhips and Explosives)"

Go ahead. Take it. steal it . Put it in the Combat supplement as an alternative/updated melee rule, or gate it behind a small karma expenditure if you want to make it look like an addition instead of a "fix". Or put it in the Errata and pretend that it was always supposed to be RAI and just forgotten by accident, like the unarmed damage Codes

[Michael Chandra]

Publicly posted material cannot be included in books due to copyright problems.

[penllawen]

Publicly posted material cannot be included in books due to copyright problems.

Wait -- so every time someone posts a houserule suggestion to paper over some illogicality in the 6e CRB, we narrow down the options for rules the errata team can then use to sort it out officially?

[Gareth]

Publicly posted material cannot be included in books due to copyright problems.

That does seem like something the forum T&C should cover?

[Michael Chandra]

All I know is a freelancer told me not to publicly post anything I want to submit for publishing. 

[Finstersang]

See, that´s the reason why I´m sometimes hesitant to post suggestions here. And apparently, my concerns are right...

Seriously, what kind of thinking is that? That´s what TOS are for. Or, when in doubt, just ask the poster? Or is that considered breaking the NDA because it would give the players an insight in the design process? Jeez, no wonder why so many players feel like the devs are not listening to community feedback - apparantly, the aren´t supposed to 

All I know is a freelancer told me not to publicly post anything I want to submit for publishing. 

TBH, that sounds a little bit more like an NDA thing.

[FastJack]

Um, have you read the ToS on the D&D forums? Basically, if you post your character's stat block on the forums, they can use that in future material.

[Banshee]

All I know is a freelancer told me not to publicly post anything I want to submit for publishing. 

huh!?! .. well as an experienced freelancer I call bollocks. I have been in many a brainstorming session where we have used the forum collective ideas as springboards. We often do not use them without modification but we do use them none the less.

Now it does become a completely different issue once you start getting into actual published material and NDA restrictions or if you want to control something for your own personal publication use. In other words if are you working on something that you want to maintain control and ownership for as a freelancer or developer of your own ... then you better not post it publicly!