[DigitalZombie]

Page 196 tells us this about rigging
3. If the only way you have to controlling vehicles is your pilot skill, youre not a rigger, youre a driver. Being a rigger means having an VCR ( or being a technomancer with the right complex forms submersion).

4. Rigging can be done in AR and VR

The next page goes on talking about rigging in AR and VR.

My question is: can you really rig in AR? I dont think the VCR has any use if youre not in VR.  So is the section just using the rigging term wrong? And should instead be using "controlling"  or piloting, and use rigging when the mean VCR use?

Answer: control device in AR/VR mode. Jump in only VR mode.

And a follow up question: it seems to me, when a drone ( when not direclty controlled, or jumped into) is fired upon it rolls piloting+ evasion autosoft to evade the attack, or piloting -1 if it doesnt have the autosoft loaded.
Is that correctly understood?

Answer: correct and correct

Furthermore are the autosofts no longer limited by the pilot rating of the drone?

Answer: correct, limit would likely be 6

[CigarSmoker]

And a follow up question: it seems to me, when a drone ( when not direclty controlled, or jumped into) is fired upon it rolls piloting+ evasion autosoft to evade the attack, or piloting -1 if it doesnt have the autosoft loaded.
Is that correctly understood?

Yes you find those informations on page 201. So there is only an example for a Drone not having Weapon skill Autosoft but the Evasion being the same makes sense. (without a special rules general rules apply so Pilot Stat-1 it is ^^)

Furthermore are the autosofts no longer limited by the pilot rating of the drone?

I had the same question. It was generally suggested in this Forum to use the max Rating 6 for Drone Autosofts because thats the max Rating from 4th and 5th Edition. I will use that Rating max 6 too for now because its easier to give more Rating later than to take it away from Players.

The rest of your questions no idea

[Kirklins]

My interpretation is rigging in AR is driving ala Mario kart. You're controlling but it's with control stick or AR gloves while viewing the apartment ablertablet or imagelink overlay. Functionally, I picture SR's AR being what we call VR in our real world but only because we can't jump in.

As rigging is a term of art while piloting can also be a skill, I'll say there are BBQ level arguments on that question but it's irrelevant for rulings

Piloting plus evasion or piloting -1 is how I also understand it.

I did not see it but suspect it's another edition blindness errata.

edited to correct the autocorrect

[Iron Serpent Prince]

My interpretation is rigging in AR is driving ala Mario kart. You're controlling but it's with control stick or AR gloves while viewing the apartment abler or imagelink overlay.

For the simplest, least divisive, least controversial, ruling I'd go with this and try not to think on it too much.

For those that want to dive deeper into the rabbit hole, I present the following:

For the moment, let's put game mechanics aside.  The difference - in-game - between AR and VR is pretty much that you can still perceive the world around you while in AR.  If you are familiar with the Magic System, it is analogous to Astral Perception (AR) and Astral Projection (VR).  To even be in AR, you need a DNI (Direct Neural Interface).  [[For the record, this  was Rigging prior to 4th.]]

As such, you do not need any physical controls (even AR ones) to do your piloting.  You can do it completely mentally.

The only mechanical difference is (or should be) that you can't react as fast, hence your Initiative (and Action count) is lower.

Now, you are most likely about to ask me "if I'm still capable of piloting completely mentally while in AR, why do I need to use my Physical Attributes?"

To that, I say "Pffft.  You got me.  My best answer is trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole."

That is why I recommend using the "game pad" explanation.

[ZeroSum]

The rules for rigging is a little disjointed, with implementation spread all over the book. I had to do a lot of cross-referencing while looking up information on how to build a rigger character, and I still have loads of questions.

The next page goes on talking about rigging in AR and VR.

My question is: can you really rig in AR? I dont think the VCR has any use if youre not in VR.  So is the section just using the rigging term wrong? And should instead be using "controlling"  or piloting, and use rigging when the mean VCR use?

I would agree with you on the term "rigging" being used inconsistently, but not necessarily "wrong" per se. When you're using AR to control a vehicle, you have to do so using the Control Device Matrix Action. This confused me for a while, because you can also use this action while in VR.

The way I see it, there are 5 distinct ways of getting a vehicle to go from point A to point b:
1. Use GridGuide
2. Use the onboard Pilot program
3. Remote Control (AR)
4. Remote Control (VR)
5. Jumped In Control.

The first two are largely the same, but they are distinct because the second can be done while the device is off the Matrix (i.e. cannot be hacked). 3 and 4 only differ in what attributes you use for the test (physical in AR, mental in VR, SR6 page 180), while 5 is similar to 4 but is the only method that actually requires a Control Rig (SR6 page 197).

Take the Control Rig itself, for example (SR6 page 283); it only provides it's bonus when "you are jumped into a vehicle or drone". The RCC, on the other hand, provides "the rigger the ability to control more than one drone or vehicle at a time" (SR6 page 197).

Ultimately, then, this question mostly comes down semantics, because there is technically no clear definition of what "rigging" is, nor is there a rule that explicitly depends on this term. To my mind you are "a rigger" if A) you are jumping into a vehicle with a Control Rig, B) you are using an RCC to send commands to multiple drones at a time, and/or C) you are using the Control Device action from VR. Once you move into the AR remote control method I feel like you're entering the grey area between rigging and piloting, because you are now using your physical attributes instead of your mental ones, but this is purely how I feel and not at all a "rules" interpretation.

And a follow up question: it seems to me, when a drone ( when not direclty controlled, or jumped into) is fired upon it rolls piloting+ evasion autosoft to evade the attack, or piloting -1 if it doesnt have the autosoft loaded.
Is that correctly understood?

Furthermore are the autosofts no longer limited by the pilot rating of the drone?

Correct and correct.

Some other questions I accumulated over the past few days.
1. When exactly do you gain the bonus point of Edge for having a control rig?
"When you’re jumped into a vehicle or drone, the control rig provides its rating as a dice pool bonus on all vehicle skill tests and a bonus point of Edge."
Once when you jump in, or every time you take an action that the control rig would affect (up to the usual 2/Combat Round)?

2. How does an anthro drone perform an unarmed attack?
A jumped in rigger would simply calculate attack rating (normally Strength + Reaction) using Charisma + Intuition, with a DV of (Charisma/2, round up); Page 196 seems to suggest that "vehicles and drones have an attack rating of the driver's Piloting skill + Sensor, which would be the Maneuvering autosoft + Sensor, or Sensor -1, but how do you calculate DV? Pilot / 2, round up, as Pilot stands in for most other physical and mental attributes?

3. Can you slave non-vehicle devices to an RCC equal to it's Data Processing attribute in addition to it's Rating x 3 of vehicles and drones?

4. Can a weapon mount hold different types of ammunition and switch between them, or are you restricted to only a single type of ammo?

5. More of a decker question, but how do drones and vehicles resist Matrix damage, and can they be hit by biofeedback damage?

6. Related, why is the entry for Encryption on page 198 different from the one on page 184? Can I use either? Both?

7. If a microdrone (operating independently or piloted by a rigger) uses the Stealth skill, how does this interact with the size modifiers introduced by the errata?
A microdrone adds 4 to the threshold to spot it using Perception, but Stealth is normally an opposed check.

I have some other questions as well, but those are very niche and I'll save them for after errata comes out.

[ZeroSum]

For the moment, let's put game mechanics aside.  The difference - in-game - between AR and VR is pretty much that you can still perceive the world around you while in AR.  If you are familiar with the Magic System, it is analogous to Astral Perception (AR) and Astral Projection (VR).  To even be in AR, you need a DNI (Direct Neural Interface).  [[For the record, this  was Rigging prior to 4th.]]

Emphasis mine. Not entirely correct:

When you enter augmented reality, whether you use an implanted image link, AR-capable glasses, a datajack, or a technomancer’s innate perception, your perspective on the world around you will change dramatically.

In other words, glasses with an Image Link lets you interface with AR. Your analogy still holds up, by the way, and it's a good one if you ask me, but DNI is not required to use AR.

[Iron Serpent Prince]

For the moment, let's put game mechanics aside.  The difference - in-game - between AR and VR is pretty much that you can still perceive the world around you while in AR.  If you are familiar with the Magic System, it is analogous to Astral Perception (AR) and Astral Projection (VR).  To even be in AR, you need a DNI (Direct Neural Interface).  [[For the record, this  was Rigging prior to 4th.]]

Emphasis mine. Not entirely correct:

When you enter augmented reality, whether you use an implanted image link, AR-capable glasses, a datajack, or a technomancer’s innate perception, your perspective on the world around you will change dramatically.

In other words, glasses with an Image Link lets you interface with AR. Your analogy still holds up, by the way, and it's a good one if you ask me, but DNI is not required to use AR.

sigh  You are, of course, correct.  In my head there is a difference between being in AR, and simply using it.  I'll have to crush that distinction one day.

In my defense, if you are a Rigger contemplating AR versus VR, you have a Control Rig that gives you DNI.  So, there is that. 

For the record, I have the same questions as you do from your earlier post - especially the bonus point of Edge granted from the Control Rig because it reads as if there is only a single bonus point without any real indication of when it is gained.

[CigarSmoker]

5. More of a decker question, but how do drones and vehicles resist Matrix damage, [...]

You find that on page 179 "Drones use their Pilot Rating in Place of the Mental Attribute". So when the Defense says Firewall, an autonomous Drone would defend Pilot as Firewall. The Device Rating to determine the Matrix condition Monitor is found on page 201 "their Device Rating to be equal to their Sensor rating."

I dont see anywhere how the Mental Attributes or the Device rating would turn by default into Firewall.
To see Autonomous Drone Firewall being Pilot ratingx1 you have to read the sentence on page 179 carefully, see Xenons Answer below ^^

5. [...] and can they be hit by biofeedback damage?

Id say no because if you look at IC there is IC that does both Biofeedback and Matrix damage at the same time (called Black IC), there is IC that only does Biofeedback Damage (called Sparky) and IC that only does Matrix damage (called Killer).

So Biofeedback damage does not turn to Matrix damage. When  you are in Cold Sim its stun, in Hot Sim its physical.

[Xenon]

Either you ask the auto pilot to take an action on its own (using its own ratings)
...or you control it yourself (using your own ratings).


You can control it yourself in different ways:

1. Manual control
2. Remote control
3. Jumped in


Manual control can be done without being connected to the matrix at all or while in AR mode. Cannot be done while in VR mode. Noise penalties does never apply when using Manual contol. Must physically be in the driver seat of the vehicle.

Remote control can be done from either AR mode or VR mode. Can be done while directly connected or via remote. If done via remote then noise penalties applies.

Jumped in can only be done from VR mode. Cannot be done from AR mode. Can be done while directly connected or via remote. If done via remote then noise penalties applies. Taking the jump require a Vehicle Control Rig implant.


If you are using a device via Augmented Reality, and the device requires a Physical attribute, use your normal Physical attribute for this test. If you are using this device via Virtual Reality, and the device requires a Physical attribute, substitute the appropriate Mental attribute for this test. (Body = Willpower, Agility = Logic, Reaction = Intuition, Strength = Charisma).

[Xenon]

So when the Defense says Firewall, an autonomous Drone would defend by using Firewall against Matrix damage but it has 0 by default.

If the vehicle is part of a larger network then odds are there will be a Firewall rating in there that it may use.

I dont see anywhere how the Mental Attributes or the Device rating would turn by default into Firewall.

If a hacker is trying to control an unattended device (perhaps a random maglock) then it will defend against the attempt using its device rating (standing in for the mental attribute, willpower in this case) and the firewall (if any) it might have access to.

[CigarSmoker]

I dont see anywhere how the Mental Attributes or the Device rating would turn by default into Firewall.

If a hacker is trying to control an unattended device (perhaps a random maglock) then it will defend against the attempt using its device rating (standing in for the mental attribute, willpower in this case) and the firewall (if any) it might have access to.

Got any pages from 6th Edition where this is written ? I just quoted the book that Pilot is standing for the Mental Attributes in 6th Edition. And other than Technomancers using Willpower as Firewall there seems to be no general rule for that.

[Xenon]

Sorry. I realized that I was simply going by SR5 memory and was about to delete my entire post when I noticed you already replied.

In SR6 it is resolved like this:


SR6 p. 180 Control Device
If there is no test associated with the device you wish to use, use Electronics + Logic vs. Firewall + Willpower.


SR6 p. 179 Matrix Actions
Where two different dice pools are listed, such as “Intuition + Firewall or Sleaze + Firewall,” personas with Mental attributes will use the pool that include those attributes. Drones will use their Pilot Rating where listed.

[CigarSmoker]

Now that was better than deleting the post, so its Pilot+0 for autonomous drones just realized that when reading the sentence again

[Xenon]

...and if the drone is part of a larger network (WAN or PAN) then it probably also have access to a firewall rating (from the Host or a commlink / cyberjack / RCC in the PAN)


Then again, when using the Control Action to remote control a drone then you just need to have User access and take the test associated with the action you are performing as normal and as if the drone is your own (e.g. Pilot + Reaction in AR or Pilot + Intuition in VR or Engineering + Logic for firing - not an Opposed Electronics + Logic vs. Firewall + Willpower test)

SR6 p. 180 Control Device
While you have control, you can use the device as if you were the owner using a standard skill test, including turning the device off if you have Admin access.

[CigarSmoker]

Well strictly by the words, word by word, an autonomous Drone is a sitting Duck with 0 Firewall and 1xPilot (useless) Willpower when resisting Matrix Damage. You can very gently try to read that it has Pilotx1 rating as a "general" defensive dicepool.

But as Xenon wrote normally the Drone would be under 99,9% of the time part of a Host, a RCC a Commlink and thus have a Firewall ...