[CigarSmoker]

2. How does an anthro drone perform an unarmed attack?
A jumped in rigger would simply calculate attack rating (normally Strength + Reaction) using Charisma + Intuition, with a DV of (Charisma/2, round up); Page 196 seems to suggest that "vehicles and drones have an attack rating of the driver's Piloting skill + Sensor, which would be the Maneuvering autosoft + Sensor, or Sensor -1, but how do you calculate DV? Pilot / 2, round up, as Pilot stands in for most other physical and mental attributes?

Page 200-201 Using Vehicles/Drones as Weapons Damage is Body/2 rounded up, +1 for each current Speed Interval, and its Physical Damage

So when the Drone is standing still Speed Interval is +0 DV.

[ZeroSum]

Yeah, Ramming is the only method I've found too, and that makes sense for all vehicles that do not have arms.

The Nissan Oni specifically has limbs with "retractable blades", but no way to attack with them other than bashing it's whole body against the opponent?

[DigitalZombie]

Alot of good answers, and new relevant questions. I will update the original posts with your answers and questions, as soon as Im on something else than a phone.

Another drone question:
A technomancer has access to emulate program. Besides normal hacking programs it can emulate autosofts ( rating = technomancer DP). But how on earth is that autosoft used?
As when the technomancer is either jumped im, or using control device he is using his own skills, and not autosofts. So does the technomancer work like an RCC-lite version, where he is able to share his autosoft with any or all drones? Would he need to have the drones slaved to his technomancer PAN (granted via submerging)? Or can he grant it to drones slaved to commlinks, RCC or whatever, without thr techno autosoft taking any program slots?

[Xenon]

Well strictly by the words, word by word, an autonomous Drone is a sitting Duck with 0 Firewall and 1xPilot (useless) Willpower when resisting Matrix Damage. You can very gently try to read that it has Pilotx1 rating as a "general" defensive dicepool.

But as Xenon wrote normally the Drone would be under 99,9% of the time part of a Host, a RCC a Commlink and thus have a Firewall ...

Thing I was quoting was when for example a maglock or elevator etc is opposing (or defending against) the Control Device action. Different matrix actions are opposed by different mental and matrix attributes. When you have User or Admin access on a Drone it will normally not oppose the Control Device action at all. You just take the Pilot or Engineering test as if you are a legit user of the drone.

As per errata, Matrix damage is normally only resisted (or soaked) with Firewall while Biofeedback (which deal stun or physical damage to the actual operator in case he or she is in cold- or hot-sim VR mode.... rather than Matrix Damage to his or her device) is normally resisted with Willpower.

So does the technomancer work like an RCC-lite version, where he is able to share his autosoft with any or all drones?

Could this perhaps simply be in preparation to future supplements?

For example, in SR5 Kill Code there was a data stream called Machinist that had the Deamon ability that let them emulate all effects you normally got from a RCC (including sharing autosofts to drones slaved to their living persona).

[CigarSmoker]

Another drone question:
A technomancer has access to emulate program. Besides normal hacking programs it can emulate autosofts ( rating = technomancer DP). But how on earth is that autosoft used?

1.Technomancer can take control of a opponent Riggers Drone, the Drone had the Autosoft on the Riggers RCC, is now useless.
2. Now he uses the emulate autosoft to give the Drone the approriate Weapon skill.
3. Drone starts firing on the Opponents

That can be made even better by using Machine Sprite to boost the Drones Pilot Rating.

[CigarSmoker]

Yeah, Ramming is the only method I've found too, and that makes sense for all vehicles that do not have arms.

The Nissan Oni specifically has limbs with "retractable blades", but no way to attack with them other than bashing it's whole body against the opponent?

If you look at the Cyber Implant Weapons on page 290 they all do 3P or less. So with his Body 9 and the resulting DV 5 the Oni should leave his Blades retracted to be errated i d say

[ZeroSum]

Yeah, Ramming is the only method I've found too, and that makes sense for all vehicles that do not have arms.

The Nissan Oni specifically has limbs with "retractable blades", but no way to attack with them other than bashing it's whole body against the opponent?

If you look at the Cyber Implant Weapons on page 290 they all do 3P or less. So with his Body 9 and the resulting DV 5 the Oni should leave his Blades retracted to be errated i d say

Hah, fair.

[Xenon]

1.Technomancer can take control of a opponent Riggers Drone, the Drone had the Autosoft on the Riggers RCC, is now useless.
2. Now he uses the emulate autosoft to give the Drone the approriate Weapon skill.
3. Drone starts firing on the Opponents

Either gain Access on the drone and control it yourself (using your own Pilot and Engineering ratings) in which case both autopilot and autosofts ratings have no impact at all on the outcome Or Spoof a Command to the drone's autopilot, instructing it to open fire or you, in which case it will use its own autopilot rating but also the autosoft rating still running on the RCC it is slaved to.

[CigarSmoker]

1.Technomancer can take control of a opponent Riggers Drone, the Drone had the Autosoft on the Riggers RCC, is now useless.
2. Now he uses the emulate autosoft to give the Drone the approriate Weapon skill.
3. Drone starts firing on the Opponents

Either gain Access on the drone and control it yourself (using your own Pilot and Engineering ratings) in which case both autopilot and autosofts ratings have no impact at all on the outcome Or Spoof a Command to the drone's autopilot, instructing it to open fire or you, in which case it will use its own autopilot rating but also the autosoft rating still running on the RCC it is slaved to.

As long as the Rigger is alive he can turn the Drone off using the anytime Action "Change Device Mode" for one Minor Action. So you either have to kill/Knock out him first or brick his RCC. Killing the Rigger would be better usually thats true, as you said you want his Autosofts.

So if the RCC gets destroyed because the Rigger dies in an explosion for example there is a way where the "Emulate:Autosoft" gets useful.

Generally speaking using the "Command Drone" Action is alot better than using your own stats, exception when your stats are a lot higher. Because the Technomancer uses 1 Minor Action to issue a command, then the Drone uses 1 Major Action 5 Minor Actions to shoot ...
The Emulate Autosoft produces an Autosoft Rating equal to the Technomancers Data Processing, that can be pretty high too.

edit: could as well be an oldschool rigger being jagged in without using Autosoft. As i mentioned in the other thread im 6th edition you can attack them while they are jacked in using matrix combat. So kill rigger with data spike, use his drone via Emulate autosoft.

edit2: you can linklock the rigger so he cant turn the drone off. but linklocking his RCC and the Drone is not very efficient.

[DigitalZombie]

Instead of starting a new thread, Ill continue here instead.

First: The control rig chart with the attribute conversion table.

Agility and reaction to logic and intuition makes super sense- No worries there.
But strength to charisma?? By RAW a drone would suddenly have a crazy high lift/carry score when controlled by a good-lookin elven chick with charisma 8.
In what scenario would IT actually make sense to have charisma modify a strength based test in a drone?

Same with body to willpower? I supposed its just for feedback dmg? As normal dmg resist should still be the drones body score. But why have it part og the table then?

Secondly: why invent new rules for physical defence ratings? Why should it be pilot+ sensor? Body+ armour would make more sense- less confusing and more streamlined.
Same with attack rating (partly) why have it be a skill (piloting) and an attribute (sensor).

Personally Im looking at changing it to physical defence rating = body + armour
Attack rating = drone body (drone body should also be their strength score) + pilot ( the drones closest equivelant to reaction)/intuition/reaction when controlled/jumped in.

Thirdly: RCC programs. Encryption program for deck gives a bonus when trying to encrypt stuff. Encryption program for RCC gives +1 firewall, like in 5th edition. I presume the RCC encryption should be errataed to function like the deck program. Or at the very least undergo a name change to something Else.
And can a drone benefit from pilot/2 programs AND RCC programs at the same time? They couldnt in 5th, but 6th doesnt explain it super well I think.

Fourthly: Im somewhat saddened by how the drone attribute in general Works.
I was hoping for some more stream lining here.
Like Drone body is a stand in for the body and strength attribute.
Pilot is a stand in for agility and reaction. And sensor is a stand in for All mental attributes- when relevant. (Or maybe pilot should have agility, reaction and logic).

Instead we have body = body, but not on defence ratings
Pilot = reaction for piloting, and defense tests.
Pilot = agility for stealth but not attacking
Pilot = strength for attack rating, but No other rules for strength
Pilot = intuition for initiative, but not for anything else
Pilot = body in defence rating, but not for anything else
Sensor= agility but only for attacking
Sensor = logic for the cracking skill
Sensor = intuition for detecting stuff
Sensor = reaction but only for attack rating
Defense test is pilot (makes sense) + autosoft ( makes less sense/at least not streamlined). Not attribute+ attribute

( I think I got these right. Please correct med if not)

Nothing about strength scores beyond this except that when jumped in its charisma.

Furthermore, I cant find anything about the fuzzy logic test in 6th, when the dogbrain is confronted with a dilemma/situation. ( Used to be pilot*2 I think)


Furthermore they have 1 condition monitor of body/2 + 8 (makes sense)
But I believe they also have a Matrix condition monitor as well right? Which would be sensor/2 +8 ?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Instead of starting a new thread, Ill continue here instead.

First: The control rig chart with the attribute conversion table.

Agility and reaction to logic and intuition makes super sense- No worries there.
But strength to charisma?? By RAW a drone would suddenly have a crazy high lift/carry score when controlled by a good-lookin elven chick with charisma 8.
In what scenario would IT actually make sense to have charisma modify a strength based test in a drone?

Wait, wait, wait. The conversion is for the RIGGER'S stats while in VR, which of course doesn't even occur if you're in AR.  But even while in VR, even while Jumped In, the Drone's stats don't change. 

Secondly: why invent new rules for physical defence ratings? Why should it be pilot+ sensor? Body+ armour would make more sense- less confusing and more streamlined.
Same with attack rating (partly) why have it be a skill (piloting) and an attribute (sensor).

Personally Im looking at changing it to physical defence rating = body + armour
Attack rating = drone body (drone body should also be their strength score) + pilot ( the drones closest equivelant to reaction)/intuition/reaction when controlled/jumped in.

Because Body+Armor results in ridiculously high DRs.  If the rigger is in control (Remote Control or Jumped In) it's Rigger's Pilot Skill rating + vehicle/drone's Armor.  If the (auto)Pilot program is in control, it's Pilot + Armor.  DR of high 20s or even 30s isn't good for game balance.  At least while we're talking about vehicles that aren't actually tanks.

Thirdly: RCC programs. Encryption program for deck gives a bonus when trying to encrypt stuff. Encryption program for RCC gives +1 firewall, like in 5th edition. I presume the RCC encryption should be errataed to function like the deck program. Or at the very least undergo a name change to something Else.
And can a drone benefit from pilot/2 programs AND RCC programs at the same time? They couldnt in 5th, but 6th doesnt explain it super well I think.

We're aware.  Can't comment further.

Fourthly: Im somewhat saddened by how the drone attribute in general Works.
I was hoping for some more stream lining here.
Like Drone body is a stand in for the body and strength attribute.
Pilot is a stand in for agility and reaction. And sensor is a stand in for All mental attributes- when relevant. (Or maybe pilot should have agility, reaction and logic).

Instead we have body = body, but not on defence ratings
Pilot = reaction for piloting, and defense tests.
Pilot = agility for stealth but not attacking
Pilot = strength for attack rating, but No other rules for strength
Pilot = intuition for initiative, but not for anything else
Pilot = body in defence rating, but not for anything else
Sensor= agility but only for attacking
Sensor = logic for the cracking skill
Sensor = intuition for detecting stuff
Sensor = reaction but only for attack rating
Defense test is pilot (makes sense) + autosoft ( makes less sense/at least not streamlined). Not attribute+ attribute

( I think I got these right. Please correct med if not)

Nothing about strength scores beyond this except that when jumped in its charisma.

It's regrettable that you're not happy. But in simple terms, it's at least neat and tidy that Pilot stands in for physical attributes, and sensor stands in for mental attributes?  And honestly I don't recall Strength being addressed at all, but in absence of a rule it sure seems fair that a drone's Strength equals its Body, if STR becomes relevant for some reason.

Furthermore, I cant find anything about the fuzzy logic test in 6th, when the dogbrain is confronted with a dilemma/situation. ( Used to be pilot*2 I think)

Yep, I wish this stayed in too.  Of course, there's nothing stopping you from using that mechanic.  Or, just maybe, dogbrains have advanced in 2080 to the point where even the low ratings won't do dumb drek on you, and they just act like regular NPCs?  (I prefer the former, like you probably do too)

Furthermore they have 1 condition monitor of body/2 + 8 (makes sense)
But I believe they also have a Matrix condition monitor as well right? Which would be sensor/2 +8 ?

Every device, to include vehicles and drones, has a Matrix Condition Monitor.  Your guns, your shoelaces, even the cloud of simsense-broadcasting "flavor additives" floating in your ramen.  MCMs are Device Rating/2 + 8, but yes IIRC sensor stands in for DR for vehicles/drones.

[DigitalZombie]

Instead of starting a new thread, Ill continue here instead.

First: The control rig chart with the attribute conversion table.

Agility and reaction to logic and intuition makes super sense- No worries there.
But strength to charisma?? By RAW a drone would suddenly have a crazy high lift/carry score when controlled by a good-lookin elven chick with charisma 8.
In what scenario would IT actually make sense to have charisma modify a strength based test in a drone?

Wait, wait, wait. The conversion is for the RIGGER'S stats while in VR, which of course doesn't even occur if you're in AR.  But even while in VR, even while Jumped In, the Drone's stats don't change. 

Aah I didnt mean in AR mode sorry
BUT the table actually says "jumped in attribute"  and goes on to explain that a rigger would use his mental Attributes in place of his physical when making tests while jumped in.
I believe that section would benefit from a clarification. As Zerosum already quoted the CHA/2  as dmg in this thread.

Secondly: why invent new rules for physical defence ratings? Why should it be pilot+ sensor? Body+ armour would make more sense- less confusing and more streamlined.
Same with attack rating (partly) why have it be a skill (piloting) and an attribute (sensor).

Personally Im looking at changing it to physical defence rating = body + armour
Attack rating = drone body (drone body should also be their strength score) + pilot ( the drones closest equivelant to reaction)/intuition/reaction when controlled/jumped in.

Because Body+Armor results in ridiculously high DRs.  If the rigger is in control (Remote Control or Jumped In) it's Rigger's Pilot Skill rating + vehicle/drone's Armor.  If the (auto)Pilot program is in control, it's Pilot + Armor.  DR of high 20s or even 30s isn't good for game balance.  At least while we're talking about vehicles that aren't actually tanks.

You are of course right. Which begs the question... Why give vehicles such a high armour value that you would need to reinvent how physical defence rating would be calculated?
For instance the Steel Lynx has body 12, armour 16 and a pilot rating of 4. For a RAW defence rating of 20.  If it instead had had an armour rating of "just" 8. It would also have had a defence rating of 20, when we just used the normal calculation method of body+armour.
It seems like they created the problem by giving vehicles super high armour ratings- 5th edition ratings. And instead of toning the armour ratings down to 6th ed. Levels, they invented a new defence rating logic - just for vehicles.

[DigitalZombie]

Fourthly: Im somewhat saddened by how the drone attribute in general Works.
I was hoping for some more stream lining here.
Like Drone body is a stand in for the body and strength attribute.
Pilot is a stand in for agility and reaction. And sensor is a stand in for All mental attributes- when relevant. (Or maybe pilot should have agility, reaction and logic).

Instead we have body = body, but not on defence ratings
Pilot = reaction for piloting, and defense tests.
Pilot = agility for stealth but not attacking
Pilot = strength for attack rating, but No other rules for strength
Pilot = intuition for initiative, but not for anything else
Pilot = body in defence rating, but not for anything else
Sensor= agility but only for attacking
Sensor = logic for the cracking skill
Sensor = intuition for detecting stuff
Sensor = reaction but only for attack rating
Defense test is pilot (makes sense) + autosoft ( makes less sense/at least not streamlined). Not attribute+ attribute

( I think I got these right. Please correct me if not)

Nothing about strength scores beyond this except that when jumped in its charisma.

It's regrettable that you're not happy. But in simple terms, it's at least neat and tidy that Pilot stands in for physical attributes, and sensor stands in for mental attributes?  And honestly I don't recall Strength being addressed at all, but in absence of a rule it sure seems fair that a drone's Strength equals its Body, if STR becomes relevant for some reason.

Aah maybe my post wasnt clear. I would have loved IF pilot was reaction and agility, and sensor was mental Attributes. Alas that isnt the case. Pilot is some agility based actions -like stealth. While Sensor is other agility based actions like firearms or closecombat.

Which of course is somewhat muddied by the fact that under the "Drone rigging" section it says: .." once the command is given the drone will use pilot as its attack Attribute and any autosofts it is running as its skill".
But then the example and autosoft section uses Sensor for attacking (which I believe is correct RAW).

Now, changing vehicle Attributes to: body for body and strength. Pilot for agility and reaction. Sensor for mental  Attributes. and whenever in the control of a character All Attributes, except body/strength Would be replaced by said characters Attributes ( or mental stand in  when in VR ). This would be a lot more intuitively, and require less space in the book.

This would naturally also mean that the "purpose" og pilot and sensor somewhat chances. As the "dogbrain" part would be sensor, and not pilot.
Personality Im willing to sacrifice that part for more streamlining and and intuitive approach.

We're aware.  Can't comment further.


Yep, I wish this stayed in too.  Of course, there's nothing stopping you from using that mechanic.  Or, just maybe, dogbrains have advanced in 2080 to the point where even the low ratings won't do dumb drek on you, and they just act like regular NPCs?  (I prefer the former, like you probably do too)


Every device, to include vehicles and drones, has a Matrix Condition Monitor.  Your guns, your shoelaces, even the cloud of simsense-broadcasting "flavor additives" floating in your ramen.  MCMs are Device Rating/2 + 8, but yes IIRC sensor stands in for DR for vehicles/drones.

Good to hear. And I agree

Edit: another question
 Whats the dataprocessing rating of a drone?
Pr the rule on og 179 pilot is a stand in for all mental attributes... but dataprocessing isnt a mental attribute.
Pilot is used to calculate how many autopilot skills a drone can run. Which usually is the job of dataprocessing- so maybe its pilot rating = DP?
Sensor rating is used to determine the device rating of the drone, so maybe its sensor rating = DP
Matrix initiative is calculated by pilot rating, usually its DP. This also points in the direction that pilot = DP

I think I will go with pilot=data processing, but a page reference would be nice.
And what of other things? Like the DP of my ares predator?

And a follow up question: An RCC can share its firewall rating to my drones... but I suppose it can share its DP rating. So if a hacker would use tarpit on my drone he would "just" have to beat its pilot rating to make it non functional for  a while.

What if Im jumped into the drone, then I can use my own DP rating right? Which would mean of ot was just with my VCR that would be 2?

[Xenon]

In SR6 most devices don't have a Data Processing or Firewall rating of their own.

In order to gain a Data Processing or Firewall rating most devices need to be included in a 'network' of sorts. For Drones this would normally mean a network protected by a Remote Command Console, but it could also be a Cyberjack, a Commlink, a Living Network or a Host.

[DigitalZombie]

In SR6 most devices don't have a Data Processing

Aaaaahh ok
.... Wait. But how does that interact with the rules saying: when DP is zero you cant make any matrix actions with the device until its higher again.

How can I use control device (matrix action) on a non slaved drone? Or how does the tarpit action Work against an Enemy drone? (If it isnt slaved).

I can see  a PAN gives firewall to its slaved devices, but nothing about DP.