[PatrolDeer]

I would argue against the Automatics specialization in general. I understand that this is a game, but my reasoning is that the skill doesn't transfer from one weapon type to another, just because it is capable of Automatic mode of firing.

Machine pistols share some commonalities with SMG's, but from that point forward, Firearms with automatic mode of fire are different in design and dedicated purpose. Therefore the specialization skill is not universally transferable from one type of Firearm capable of automatic mode of firing to another.
The handling, operation and reloading is different, the length of the barrel and range is different, the caliber and recoil are different in most Firearms capable of Automatic fire, so Automatics specialization is too general. Again I point out that Machine Pistols and SMG's do share commonalities and should be treated carefully.

A StreetSam takes specialization in Assault Rifles, gets + 2 dice pool bonus when operating an Assault rifle like Raiden, or AK.
A Decker takes specialization in Automatics, gets + 2 dice pool bonus when operating everything Automatic fire capable. Decker keeps the +2 dice pool bonus when operating an AK or a Raiden and keeps that bonus after switching to Automatic SMG. Streetsam has to use Assault rifle or loose the specialization bonus.

Will the specialization in Burst-fire have the same application among all the weapon types capable of Burst-fire, even tho one is a Pistol and second an Assault rifle ?

[Michael Chandra]

I agree, Automatics specialization should die in a fire. We should just have clear weapon categories and 1 spec per category.

[Ajax]

I agree, Automatics specialization should die in a fire. We should just have clear weapon categories and 1 spec per category.

Hear, hear!

[Xenon]

It is explicitly mentioned as a specialization and it also existed as a skill of its own in the previous edition.

Just rule that pistol also extend to machine pistols and SMGs (that you hold with one hand as a pistol, 'gangsta style ') and rule that longarms also extend to SMGs (that you hold with two hands and brace against your shoulder, 'SWAT style'), carbines and assault rifles.

I think each weapon category (Holdouts, Automatic pistols, Revolvers, Tacers etc) make for a good expertise once you already have a specialization (in this case in Pistols).

[Ajax]

It is explicitly mentioned as a specialization and it also existed as a skill of its own in the previous edition.

Yes, "Automatics" did exist as a Skill in previous editions. It also existed as a Specialization in other previous editions. It was silly both ways and caused no end of headaches, as we all had to spend hour of precious game-time arguing with each other about exactly what it did or did not cover.

If we just went with Pistols & Tasers, Machine Pistols & Submachine Guns, Shotguns & Rifles, Assault Rifles, and Machine Guns as the Specialization categories, it would be a heck of a lot easier to categorize things.

[Xenon]

You are free to house rule it as you like. There is a sticky house rule thread in this very forum. But it is clear that automatics is a valid specialization in SR6.

I would just have it include machine pistols, SMGs and assault rifles. Done.

[Banshee]

Also remember that specializations listed with the skills are not meant to be exclusive or even all inclusive but rather just a guideline

[jacx7]

Indeed, CRB p.92

The listings of specializations with each skill are not exhaustive— if players develop a specialization within a skill that they would like to have, and their gamemaster approves it, they can have it.

This raises another question in me:
If you had an expertise (+3) and specialization (+2) in one skill that 'overlap' would they stack or would you just use the expertise because it gives the higher augmentation?

e.g.:
Expertise: Firearms: Pistols
Spec: Firearms: Silenced Arms

= +5 to Firearms when attacking with an Ares Light Fire because of its integrated silencer?

[Banshee]

Indeed, CRB p.92

The listings of specializations with each skill are not exhaustive— if players develop a specialization within a skill that they would like to have, and their gamemaster approves it, they can have it.

This raises another question in me:
If you had an expertise (+3) and specialization (+2) in one skill that 'overlap' would they stack or would you just use the expertise because it gives the higher augmentation?

e.g.:
Expertise: Firearms: Pistols
Spec: Firearms: Silenced Arms

= +5 to Firearms when attacking with an Ares Light Fire because of its integrated silencer?

No, expertise replaces the specialization and is just the next step up

[skalchemist]

Also remember that specializations listed with the skills are not meant to be exclusive or even all inclusive but rather just a guideline

Banshee, I agree with this as it is indeed the rule for specializations. 

But maybe you could elaborate on what you think the writer of that section (maybe you?) thought was covered by "Automatics" as a specialization as compared to the other example specializations?  I'm just as confused as everyone else, especially in light of the fact that specialization by weapon category listed in the Gear chapter as Michael suggests is such an obvious way to categorize specializations.  Maybe the writer thought those categories were too broad?  Too narrow?  Maybe the writer wanted to purposely show that specializations could overlap with each other?  I just want to understand the logic behind the current list.

[Banshee]

Also remember that specializations listed with the skills are not meant to be exclusive or even all inclusive but rather just a guideline

Banshee, I agree with this as it is indeed the rule for specializations. 

But maybe you could elaborate on what you think the writer of that section (maybe you?) thought was covered by "Automatics" as a specialization as compared to the other example specializations?  I'm just as confused as everyone else, especially in light of the fact that specialization by weapon category listed in the Gear chapter as Michael suggests is such an obvious way to categorize specializations.  Maybe the writer thought those categories were too broad?  Too narrow?  Maybe the writer wanted to purposely show that specializations could overlap with each other?  I just want to understand the logic behind the current list.

I did not write that section, and believe it is primarily a carryover from when we were using the 5E skills as a guide to what should be included. I also personally prefer a breakdown that's inline with the gear chapter but would allow automatics as a specialization that covers all light weapons that fire primarily in BF mode ... so machine pistols, SMG, and assault rifles

[skalchemist]

Also remember that specializations listed with the skills are not meant to be exclusive or even all inclusive but rather just a guideline

Banshee, I agree with this as it is indeed the rule for specializations. 

But maybe you could elaborate on what you think the writer of that section (maybe you?) thought was covered by "Automatics" as a specialization as compared to the other example specializations?  I'm just as confused as everyone else, especially in light of the fact that specialization by weapon category listed in the Gear chapter as Michael suggests is such an obvious way to categorize specializations.  Maybe the writer thought those categories were too broad?  Too narrow?  Maybe the writer wanted to purposely show that specializations could overlap with each other?  I just want to understand the logic behind the current list.

I did not write that section, and believe it is primarily a carryover from when we were using the 5E skills as a guide to what should be included. I also personally prefer a breakdown that's inline with the gear chapter but would allow automatics as a specialization that covers all light weapons that fire primarily in BF mode ... so machine pistols, SMG, and assault rifles

Thanks, that's helpful. 

[jacx7]

Indeed, CRB p.92

The listings of specializations with each skill are not exhaustive— if players develop a specialization within a skill that they would like to have, and their gamemaster approves it, they can have it.

This raises another question in me:
If you had an expertise (+3) and specialization (+2) in one skill that 'overlap' would they stack or would you just use the expertise because it gives the higher augmentation?

e.g.:
Expertise: Firearms: Pistols
Spec: Firearms: Silenced Arms

= +5 to Firearms when attacking with an Ares Light Fire because of its integrated silencer?

No, expertise replaces the specialization and is just the next step up

You can have one expertise and one specialization in one skill at the same time...

CRB p.68: 'You cannot gain an additional specialization in a skill until you have converted the first one into an expertise, [...]'
Silenced arms was an example for a specialization that has to be approved by the GM as stated on p.92.

Do they stack or not? - why?


edit:

Also hopefully found some clarifications in the german CRB on available specializations for firearms. There it's just pistols, rifles and machine guns

All tables from german CRB containing the word pistols are:
light pistols
automatic pistols
heavy pistols
machine pistols

rifles tables would be:
shotguns
hunting rifles
assault rifles
sniper rifles

machine guns table:
machine guns

[Michael Chandra]

Different specializations explicitly didn't stack previously. That restriction isn't explicitly stated here, but I still expect GMs to follow it.

[Banshee]

Indeed, CRB p.92

The listings of specializations with each skill are not exhaustive— if players develop a specialization within a skill that they would like to have, and their gamemaster approves it, they can have it.

This raises another question in me:
If you had an expertise (+3) and specialization (+2) in one skill that 'overlap' would they stack or would you just use the expertise because it gives the higher augmentation?

e.g.:
Expertise: Firearms: Pistols
Spec: Firearms: Silenced Arms

= +5 to Firearms when attacking with an Ares Light Fire because of its integrated silencer?

No, expertise replaces the specialization and is just the next step up

You can have one expertise and one specialization in one skill at the same time...

CRB p.68: 'You cannot gain an additional specialization in a skill until you have converted the first one into an expertise, [...]'
Silenced arms was an example for a specialization that has to be approved by the GM as stated on p.92.

Do they stack or not? - why?


edit:

Also hopefully found some clarifications in the german CRB on available specializations for firearms. There it's just pistols, rifles and machine guns

All tables from german CRB containing the word pistols are:
light pistols
automatic pistols
heavy pistols
machine pistols

rifles tables would be:
shotguns
hunting rifles
assault rifles
sniper rifles

machine guns table:
machine guns

Key word is right in what you quoted from CRB pg 68 ... converted ... when you learn an expertise you are simply upgrading an existing specialization, so does not stack because it is the same thing.

Example... Firearms 5, with Expertise Pistols 8, Specialization Shotguns 7