[Typhus]

What a day for me. 

So let's talk Noise in 6E. 

I see the Noise paragraph.  I see the Noise chart.  Now I have questions.

1. If the Noise is greater than the Device Rating, the device cannot access the Matrix.  Distance equates to Noise ratings.
So, does this mean that if my rating 2 commlink is trying to connect to a commlink 10,005km away, that I cannot do so because of the distance and resulting Noise rating of 5?  Can my crappy rating 1 commlink not even call the pizza place downtown if it's over 1km away?  Or does being connected to the Matrix obviate that problem because the various signal routers are carrying my data where it needs to go reliably?  The text says "Noise represents any interference between a user and their target."  That's pretty straightforward, but it stops making sense almost immediately when it comes to basic commcalls.  Nor could you operate any business this way. 

2. The fluff text mentions spam zones not being a thing anymore, but the Noise chart has them listed as "Rating", which is not explained.  Safe to use 5e rules here? 

3. "Metal-laced earth or wall" entry on the chart.  Is this:
  (a) Metal-laced earth OR any type of wall?
  (b) Metal-laced earth or metal-laced wall? (which most are, but maybe not all) 

Also, what's "5m" of a wall?  Since a 5m thick wall wouldn't make sense, should this be read as "5m of distance while inside a building" (with metal-laced walls, if appropriate)?  If so, wouldn't this mean the "range" on a device while inside the building on a shadowrun would be limited to about 10-15 meters for average gear?  30m of distance max for a really hot deck maybe? So, really, there's no hacking of guards, doors, etc, who aren't very nearby? 

[Banshee]

Ok .. noise ..  it sucks and I don't like it but it's still there so I had to deal with it. Here are my unofficial take on things because it's not in the RAW tgus way but is the way I choose to use it.

1. The distance for noise is only the distance required for you to connect to a part of the matrix that you need access to for whatever action you need to do. So making a call to order a pizza, that's "local" public access so as long as your in a metropolitan area with matrix access your distance is zero. Making a call from Seattle to Tokyo then your need to bounce from Seattle local to Tokyo local ... your going to have a noise issue. Need to hack the Host on the other side town, that does not have local access so you have noise due to distance. What this means in general is that typical everyday matrix use doesn't have to deal with noise issues unless you're out in the boonies, but hacking specific targets means you need to get closer to your target for maximum efficiency.

2. Spam zones aren't in the fluff, huh ... well the rules were there first so they should be.

3. Its B ... and shhhhh don't tell anyone that 5m of wall is a lot and you will never see that unless your in a bunker but yes it is simply wall thickness so dealing with noise due to typical walls is very negligible.

[Typhus]

1. That's a workable way to ignore it.      If the original intent was to limit the distance for hacking targets (which isn't a bad goal), I guess I could get behind the RAW as a rule.  It's just totally unclear how to employ it.  If you don't distinguish between commcalls/texts and hacking though, you also have an issue.  I could see a case that call/text bandwidth is very different than sending hotsim VR bandwidth.  I can send texts on the ferry all day, but try to stream something?  Ferget it.  Reasonable distinction seems reasonable. 

2. Nope.  p. 173 says "There is enough bandwidth for people to get on, and enough user data gathered to employ targeted advertising, rather than relying on the flood of spam that used to be common on the Matrix."  which to me implies that spam zones are no more.  Also only other place the word spam appears is in the Noise charts.

So sorry for whatever happened to your actual work.  I get the sense someone gave it the serious Sweeny Todd treatment...

3. Thinking of urban games...maybe in a tunnel or underground in the sewers? 

[Banshee]

Yep, the main metagame reason for noise is a limiting factor on hacking, I used to rule in 5e that commlinks could still send and receive calls and messages without matrix but any actual matrix use is a no go if not connected so that could work as well. Still not in the official RAW though.

Well I didn't write a bunch of the fluff my focus was on crunch though my coauthor that did write the fluff and I talked about what and why of this is... so spam probably slipped through the cracks I guess.

And yeah underground situations too, but unless a typical above grade building is shielded it is almost a nonfactor.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

My personal sensibilities involve some mental gymnastics that aren't RAW, but neither do they conflict with RAW.

Noise "Jams" commlinks right off the Matrix.  That's exactly the point of a Jammer, afterall!  So I'm fine with ambient Noise cutting a commlink off from the matrix.  My mental gymnastics involve theorizing that Cloud Computing is ubiquitous in 2080- to the point that everything uses it.  Everything you store "on" your commlink is in fact not stored in any chip or drive physically inside your phone- every file on your commlink actually has its 1s and 0s stored in a data farm somewhere.  Ergo, when you can't connect to the Matrix, you can't even view your photo gallery and contact list and etc.

The gymnastics have to continue from there, though.  Why do commlinks apparently work inside spam zones?  You can't receive the spam if your commlink is jammed off the matrix, so why is it jammed off the matrix?  I theorize the existence of a distinction between Spam and Distance Noise and Static Zones/Jamming.  Spam and Distance Noise penalizes anything you roll the dice for (and Send Message doesn't involve rolling dice), but it doesn't actually bar you from the matrix. Static and Jamming still do.

[Michael Chandra]

Wouldn't the idea of a Spam zone be that you're essentially getting DDoS'd to the point where your commlink can't spare the computing powers to handle a proper call? Or the idea of a website that's so crammed with banners and intrusive popups that you can't use the actual site anymore. Imagine trying to have a conversation at a market where all the stall owners are shouting so much, you can't hear what the person next to you is telling you. That's kind of what I imagine Spam zones are like. (As partial-deaf person, noisy environments are a perfect situation for me to hear but not understand a single word someone is saying.)

[penllawen]

1. The distance for noise is only the distance required for you to connect to a part of the matrix that you need access to for whatever action you need to do. So making a call to order a pizza, that's "local" public access so as long as your in a metropolitan area with matrix access your distance is zero. Making a call from Seattle to Tokyo then your need to bounce from Seattle local to Tokyo local ... your going to have a noise issue. Need to hack the Host on the other side town, that does not have local access so you have noise due to distance. What this means in general is that typical everyday matrix use doesn't have to deal with noise issues unless you're out in the boonies, but hacking specific targets means you need to get closer to your target for maximum efficiency.

My headcanon here:

1) there are three kinds of host: Foundation hosts, Cloud hosts, and Local hosts

2) Foundation and Cloud hosts are "global" and appear to float in the sky in the Matrix
2a) Foundation hosts are weird and mysterious, as per canon, but also rare
2b) Cloud hosts are like modern day websites - comprised of a large number of geographically distributed computers linked via very fast, private connections
2c) Mechanically, Cloud and Foundation hosts are the same, although I think maybe there's Host Rating range differences (say Cloud are 3-8 and Foundation are 7-12 or something like that)

3) Local hosts appear at a specific geographic point on the Grid
3a) They are down at "street" level in the Matrix and appear at a fixed point analogous to their real-world location
3b) These are building control systems, security systems, etc - most of the stuff Shadowrunners want to break in to
3c) They have Host ratings of 1-8 or so

4) Users usually take no noise penalty when connecting to or doing stuff within Foundation or Cloud hosts
4a) The Cloud host's nearest node is assumed to be close enough to the user to not see noise
4b) Users might see noise on this link if they're out in the sticks or being jammed, however
4c) Noise here represents your commlink's inability to connect to anything, not just the host
4d) This noise does not go away once you get inside the host

5) Users take distance-based noise penalties when connecting to Local hosts or other Matrix devices that are not hosts
5a) Noise here represents lag and unreliability due to peer-to-peer routing over distances
5b) This Noise persists even inside the Local host, it doesn't go away once you "get in"

6) Most everyday Matrix stuff - voice/vid calls, social networks, messaging - is done through a Cloud host. You can call Tokyo with no noise penalty because you're doing it through a host, although your device doesn't do anything to show you that's happening unless you do it in VR.
6a) Illegal stuff can't be routed through Cloud hosts; their firewalls are good at detecting and blocking it

7) A small amount of legal, everyday stuff is nearby peer-to-peer: streaming music to your cyberears.
7a) There's rarely any noise penalty here because the range is rarely far enough to matter

Players might run acquire and run Local hosts for their own stuff, but running Cloud hosts is typically beyond their resources

Edit - fixing numerous typos

[Banshee]

1. The distance for noise is only the distance required for you to connect to a part of the matrix that you need access to for whatever action you need to do. So making a call to order a pizza, that's "local" public access so as long as your in a metropolitan area with matrix access your distance is zero. Making a call from Seattle to Tokyo then your need to bounce from Seattle local to Tokyo local ... your going to have a noise issue. Need to hack the Host on the other side town, that does not have local access so you have noise due to distance. What this means in general is that typical everyday matrix use doesn't have to deal with noise issues unless you're out in the boonies, but hacking specific targets means you need to get closer to your target for maximum efficiency.

My headcanon here:

1) there are three kinds of host: Foundation hosts, Cloud hosts, and Local hosts

2) Foundation and Cloud hosts are "global" and appear to float in the sky in the Matrix
2a) Foundation hosts are weird and mysterious, as per canon, but also rare
2b) Cloud hosts are like modern day websites - comprised of a large number of geographically distributed computers

3) Local hosts appear at a specific geographic point on the Grid
3a) They are down at "street" level in the Matrix and appear at a fixed point analogous to their real-world location

4) Users usually take no noise penalty when connecting to or doing stuff within Foundation or Cloud hosts
4a) The Cloud hosts's nearest node is assumed to be within close enough range to the user to not see noise
4b) Users might see noise on this link if they're out in the sticks or being jammed, however
4c) Noise here represent's your commlinks inability to connect to anything

5) Users take distance-based noise penalties when connecting to Local hosts or other Matrix devices that are not hosts
5a) Noise here represents lag and unreliability due to peer-to-peer routing over distances
5b) this Noise persists even inside the Host, it doesn't go away once you "get in"

6) Most everyday Matrix stuff - voice/vid calls, social networks, messaging - is done through a Cloud host. You can call Tokyo with no noise penalty because you're doing it through a host, although your device doesn't do anything to show you that's happening unless you do it in VR.
6a) Illegal stuff can't be routed through Cloud hosts; their firewalls are good at detecting and blocking it

7) A small amount of legal, everyday stuff is nearby peer-to-peer: streaming music to your cyberears.
7a) There's rarely any noise penalty here because the range is rarely far enough to matter

Players might run acquire and run Local hosts for their own stuff, but running Cloud hosts is typically beyond their resources

I like it, very much fits in with what I imagine too ... well done

[penllawen]

I like it, very much fits in with what I imagine too ... well done

Praise from Caesar is praise indeed!

[Banshee]

I like it, very much fits in with what I imagine too ... well done

Praise from Caesar is praise indeed!

You give me undue credit, just a long time fan that bs'ed his way into the book 😎 ... but thanks

[tequila]

I get the sense someone gave it the serious Sweeny Todd treatment...

LOL!  Don't see that referenced often. Now I want a meat pie.

[Xenon]

So let's talk Noise in 6E. 

To be honest I think the intent might be that wireless bonus functionality as well as matrix connection is not affected by noise due to distance specifically. That wireless bonus functionality and matrix connection are only affected by situational noise (such as spam zones or a directional jammer device) and noise due to obstructions (such as wireless inhabiting wallpaper or the jam signal action).

If this is the case then noise due to distance will only act like a negative dice pool modifier on your matrix tests (think the difference in latency between 20ms and 200ms when playing FPS games) but you will never be completely cut off your connection due to distance alone.

...and since there is no matrix test involved with Send Message (or Change Icon, Enter/Exit Host, Reconfigure Matrix Attribute as well as Switch Interface Mode) you will be free to place that call from Seattle to Berlin without any issues at all.

Note that this is pure speculation on my part. Rule wise when it comes to wireless bonus functionality and matrix connection as a whole the book does currently not seem to make any difference if the noise is generated due to distance, situational noise or due to obstructions.

[Typhus]

I guess I would rule that the noise applies to hacking specifically.  The bandwidth needed to successfully carry hot sim VR ASIST code and send you all the sensory hoohah back would quickly run out with excess noise.  A voicecall or text would never have that problem, but as you say, the latency would effectively prevent hacking to the point of uselessness.  So the phrase "prevents you from accessing the Matrix" would be the problem sentence.  Its should be more like "prevents you from accessing the target device or host via the Matrix". 

Wireless bonuses should really only be happening from your own PAN signals, I would think.  It makes some sense that high noise would interfere with the data flowing fast enough to be usable, if your hub device is overwhelmed/jammed.  However, most of the noise ratings wouldn't apply in the PANned gear.  Your distance is 0 to those.  Unless you get into a jamming field, you are pretty good to go for WBs, I assume.