[SDTroll]

I believe with this reply I have finally achieved enlightenment, for some definition of enlightenment.

Thanks to everyone for all the patience and helpful replies.   I can't speak for SDTroll (the op), but I hope they have also achieved some enlightenment.

I'm not sure I can claim enlightenment, but I understand a little better.  Mostly you are screwed if you have things wireless.

[Banshee]

I believe with this reply I have finally achieved enlightenment, for some definition of enlightenment.

Thanks to everyone for all the patience and helpful replies.   I can't speak for SDTroll (the op), but I hope they have also achieved some enlightenment.

I'm not sure I can claim enlightenment, but I understand a little better.  Mostly you are screwed if you have things wireless.

Well sort of ... your screwed IF you are running wireless, you have no matrix support, AND your gm is being a ahole.
Running wireless isn't that bad if it's defended

[Xenon]

Ah, Matrix Perception... I too have some questions about this one.


Matrix Perception seem to be a legal action that is resolved with Electronics + Intuition. It seem as if this test is sometimes opposed and sometimes just resolved as an unopposed test against a threshold(?)

Depending on your reading there seem to be four different usages (I find the the rule text to be a bit fuzzy and I might have got all this wrong);

• Matrix Search - For now at least (until we have errata with thresholds designed for an extended Matrix Search test) the easiest way seem to be to just resolve it as an unopposed simple test where hits are used directly on the Legwork Table found on SR6 p. 50
• Find a silent running 'network' - Or to spot a hacker's PAN after he used Hide against you specifically. Note that errata removed the 'with a Sleaze attribute' requirement. Both cases the test is opposed by Willpower (if the network have one) + Sleaze (if the network have one). The action is also used to spot a stealth tag (which will resist with 10 dice as a pool of its own).
• Observe in Detail - It seem plausible that this action could be taken when you for example scan a file to detect if it have a data bomb. On tie you detect it. With 1 net hit (basic info) you perhaps get the bomb rating. Perhaps 2 hits (advanced info) will tell you if the file will be deleted or not if the bomb were to go off. Depending on your reading 2 net hits when used against a persona could be used to find out if the target is using a cyberdeck (have attack and sleaze ratings) and also which programs that are running (which you can use crash program on if you gain admin access), but you could perhaps also tell which programs that are run by just seeing them in action... and 5 net hits to find out that the target is actually a technomancer. This action also seem to be used when spotting a specific persona or device hidden by Phantom or a specific File hidden by Camouflage.
• Resist matrix 'illusions' - An unopposed matrix perception test against a set threshold set by the complex form is used to resist/see through both Mirrored Persona and Resonance Veil.

When it comes to running silent it seem as if this is set on a 'network' level rather than a 'device' level in this edition;

Sometimes, a user will cut off all publicly available information and only respond to specific queries, rendering them largely invisible to the Matrix. Their wireless signal and PAN still exist—they just have to be found. A user can run silent by simply switching modes on their commlink or deck. They can be detected by an Opposed Matrix Perception test as described above.

(I read this is as if it is generally the entire personal area network that will run silent, not single devices...?)

[SDTroll]

I'm not sure I can claim enlightenment, but I understand a little better.  Mostly you are screwed if you have things wireless.

Well sort of ... your screwed IF you are running wireless, you have no matrix support, AND your gm is being a ahole.
Running wireless isn't that bad if it's defended

The RAW don't seem to leave much of a way to defend it.  I know there have been discussions of house rules to allow deckers to defend other PANs, but I can't imagine they will have many slots to do so even if the GM allows it. I will admit I haven't tried to make a decker yet, but at best it seems like she's going to have a data processing of 6-7.  With her own devices, even if she just has to attach the commlinks of the others and they take care of their devices, which seems unlikely, it's not going to leave much room.

And technomancers can't help at all until they have submerged.

I'm not sure how having the opponent fight intelligently is being and ahole.  If I was a decker and I saw a running group attacking my facility taking out the eyes of the big guy shooting everyone would pretty much top my list.  At the least, even if I don't brick it completely, it will screw up his ability to shoot the security forces and give them a better chance to take the runners down.  If I can brick it he's out of the fight and a burden to his team.

[Banshee]

Ah, Matrix Perception... I too have some questions about this one.


Matrix Perception seem to be a legal action that is resolved with Electronics + Intuition. It seem as if this test is sometimes opposed and sometimes just resolved as an unopposed test against a threshold(?)

Depending on your reading there seem to be four different usages (I find the the rule text to be a bit fuzzy and I might have got all this wrong);

• Matrix Search - For now at least (until we have errata with thresholds designed for an extended Matrix Search test) the easiest way seem to be to just resolve it as an unopposed simple test where hits are used directly on the Legwork Table found on SR6 p. 50
• Find a silent running 'network' - Or to spot a hacker's PAN after he used Hide against you specifically. Note that errata removed the 'with a Sleaze attribute' requirement. Both cases the test is opposed by Willpower (if the network have one) + Sleaze (if the network have one). The action is also used to spot a stealth tag (which will resist with 10 dice as a pool of its own).
• Observe in Detail - It seem plausible that this action could be taken when you for example scan a file to detect if it have a data bomb. On tie you detect it. With 1 net hit (basic info) you perhaps get the bomb rating. Perhaps 2 hits (advanced info) will tell you if the file will be deleted or not if the bomb were to go off. Depending on your reading 2 net hits when used against a persona could be used to find out if the target is using a cyberdeck (have attack and sleaze ratings) and also which programs that are running (which you can use crash program on if you gain admin access), but you could perhaps also tell which programs that are run by just seeing them in action... and 5 net hits to find out that the target is actually a technomancer. This action also seem to be used when spotting a specific persona or device hidden by Phantom or a specific File hidden by Camouflage.
• Resist matrix 'illusions' - An unopposed matrix perception test against a set threshold set by the complex form is used to resist/see through both Mirrored Persona and Resonance Veil.

When it comes to running silent it seem as if this is set on a 'network' level rather than a 'device' level in this edition;

Sometimes, a user will cut off all publicly available information and only respond to specific queries, rendering them largely invisible to the Matrix. Their wireless signal and PAN still exist—they just have to be found. A user can run silent by simply switching modes on their commlink or deck. They can be detected by an Opposed Matrix Perception test as described above.

(I read this is as if it is generally the entire personal area network that will run silent, not single devices...?)

Yep. It's just the matrix version of good old fashion perception so it's use varies on the situation.

[Banshee]

I'm not sure I can claim enlightenment, but I understand a little better.  Mostly you are screwed if you have things wireless.

Well sort of ... your screwed IF you are running wireless, you have no matrix support, AND your gm is being a ahole.
Running wireless isn't that bad if it's defended

The RAW don't seem to leave much of a way to defend it.  I know there have been discussions of house rules to allow deckers to defend other PANs, but I can't imagine they will have many slots to do so even if the GM allows it. I will admit I haven't tried to make a decker yet, but at best it seems like she's going to have a data processing of 6-7.  With her own devices, even if she just has to attach the commlinks of the others and they take care of their devices, which seems unlikely, it's not going to leave much room.

And technomancers can't help at all until they have submerged.

I'm not sure how having the opponent fight intelligently is being and ahole.  If I was a decker and I saw a running group attacking my facility taking out the eyes of the big guy shooting everyone would pretty much top my list.  At the least, even if I don't brick it completely, it will screw up his ability to shoot the security forces and give them a better chance to take the runners down.  If I can brick it he's out of the fight and a burden to his team.

Well until the powers that be  drop the hammer and over rule me the allowing deckers to defend other PANs is not a house rule. I specifically don't limit it as such for a reason... now I will probably have a chance to elaborate as further rules get developed to have it be a thing that only cyberdecks can do because we don't want people daisy chaining multiple commlinks on one character but we do want to allow a decker to defend the entire team.

I just mean if the team has no matrix defense and leave themselves open to it then it's kind of dick move to exploit that too much and kind of takes the fun out of it. For me ad s GM in those cases I do just enough to mess with them but not frag them over totally... it's all about the fun factor in the end afterall.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Is it a dick move to have traps in a D&D dungeon when the party has no Thief?  Ok, making it extra heavy on deadly traps might be.  But traps are part of the game, and if noone in the party wants to handle them, then everyone suffers them.

Same concept with Matrix in Shadowrun.  Noone wants to take on the responsibility of being the Matrix specialist? Fine. Everyone's vulnerable, then.

Besides: It's (somewhat rightly) often derided as MagicRun, but the Matrix dimension is one of the few things tugging Shadowrun away from MagicRun.

[Michael Chandra]

It's not as if you run into Deckers all the time on a run, so most of the time you'll be fine. Unless you're running into a corporate facility and the Spider spots you and tries to run interference, it will be rare to be targeted since Decks and Jacks are expensive, so a skilled decker is rare, even on opposition of runs. So yes, wireless comes at a risk, but it's a calculated risk, not a 'whenever the GM wants, you're effed' risk.