[Leith]

Has anyone tried this?
I had a thought. What if when you compared AR and DR you added the differnece to the dicepool of the character with the higher stat? The dicepools in question being attack for attackers and either defense or soak for defenders (probably not both). It could replace the edge bonus or coexist. It would make combat with things like drones (assuming you don't give em edge) and spirits feel less strange.

This would not extend to the matrix where the AR/ DR mechanic seems shoehorned in. It would make combat magic more deadly maybe? Armor would affect indirect spells but it already does.

I may try this on...

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Have you found that during play, only rolling Body results in a more-lethal-than-desired game, or is it theory crafting?  I ask because honestly, it sounds bad that you "only" roll body but in practice combat is still pretty survivable even as is.  Once you make it even more difficult to get eliminated, there ceases being a reason to save minor actions to use to avoid damage, which means it's a game of who does 2 major actions first.. and lots of other 2nd and 3rd order ripples that are (IMO) undesirable.

[Leith]

Pure theory. If I have an issue with the way combat works its the existance of a soak roll at all. It's an extra roll for no particular reason.

No, my thought is regarding the fact that many things in 6e give you existential bonuses (edge). DR protects you. But not directly. It gives you a tool you could use to survive but do not have to and denies your opponent same. This works fine, but is a metagame mechanic and is kinda weird. Which is why, i think, people who don't like it don't like it.

The more I think about it making aspects of the game that rely on edge to function more direct would require a complete rewrite of the combat system. And magic. And the matrix. Shadowrun is weird.

[Finstersang]

Have you found that during play, only rolling Body results in a more-lethal-than-desired game, or is it theory crafting?  I ask because honestly, it sounds bad that you "only" roll body but in practice combat is still pretty survivable even as is.  Once you make it even more difficult to get eliminated, there ceases being a reason to save minor actions to use to avoid damage, which means it's a game of who does 2 major actions first.. and lots of other 2nd and 3rd order ripples that are (IMO) undesirable.

Played a few rounds now, although with some houserules. For my tastes, combat turned out almost too survivable in the sense that One-shots are almost impossible RAW. Even though most of my houserules actually raise the effectiveness of many attacks, most encounters reqired some back and forth where even some low-level gangers needed two or three whacks. Not that this is bad thing: The simplified Action economy makes combat resolution much faster, and I always resented the "6 seconds ingame, 60 minutes in RL"-fights of the previous 2 editions. But if the players rely on "Stealth Takedowns" for their plan, it´s pretty much impossible without GM fiat.

The biggest problem with 6th Armor is also the biggest problem of the Edge System in general: The limit of 2 points per round, plus the many many many other effects that deny or limit Edge gain (my personal favorite: Shooting out cover with an imaging scope...). Can´t wait for the rules update that officially denies Edge for Drones "BeCaUSe ThEY hAvE nO EdGe AtTriBute" 

[Ixal]

Has someone tried to instead of rolling BOD for soak to (only) roll armor?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Has someone tried to instead of rolling BOD for soak to (only) roll armor?

Since BOD stats are usually going to be higher, that's increasing the lethality.  Unless, that's what you meant to do.

[MercilessMing]

Has someone tried to instead of rolling BOD for soak to (only) roll armor?

It would take away BOD's primary function, making it a dump stat at that point. 
I haven't tried this yet, but a house rule I proposed is to replace Intuition with Armor in the Defense test.  This would increase lethality for unarmored targets, maintain a pretty similar lethality level for PCs, and decrease it slightly for heavily armored targets.

The problem I foresee with it, and with any house rule that involves armor that adds dice rolling, is that augments and powers that provide armor are really cheap.  Right now, characters with cyberlimbs can get huge armor numbers.  Physad Mystic Armor can be level 4 for 1 PP.  That's forgivable when armor doesn't really matter, but would be unbalancing if they translated to defense dice.

[Ixal]

Has someone tried to instead of rolling BOD for soak to (only) roll armor?

It would take away BOD's primary function, making it a dump stat at that point. 

Still more useful than STR

[Typhus]

My own theorycrafting right now is to add 1-2 points to the base weapon DV across the board, then treat the current 6E Armor rating as straight damage reduction, 1:1.  You'd still roll Body to resist remaining damage. 

That also assumes melee DV is a base of (STR/2), plus between 1 to 3 damage, rather than fixed values that make STR essentially irrelevant.

[Ixal]

My own theorycrafting right now is to add 1-2 points to the base weapon DV across the board, then treat the current 6E Armor rating as straight damage reduction, 1:1.  You'd still roll Body to resist remaining damage. 

That also assumes melee DV is a base of (STR/2), plus between 1 to 3 damage, rather than fixed values that make STR essentially irrelevant.

So basically all armor becomes hardened?

[Typhus]

If that's what it does now, then I guess so.  I'd have to do something different for vehicles maybe, though I could just scale the number, and keep the mechanic the same.

[Finstersang]

I don´t think that current Armor mechanic is too bad in principle, but it´s a way too Lo-Res and prone to all these abysmal limitations on Edge gain.

Here´s what I´m currently using:

• Fragg that Edge Limit. Or rather, since this can get a bit wacky once the tanky characters start to embrace the bait-and-retaliate fighting style too much: There is only a limit on how much Edge you can save up for other actions than the Action at hand. Every additional point of Edge basically gets the "use it for this test only or its lost" trait that many other Edge generators already have. Not that this solves a lot of the problems with 6th Edition, and Armor is one of them.
• Grant additional Edge for more extreme AR-DR differences: +1 for a Difference of 9 or higher, another +1 for a Difference of 15 or higher.
• To give the smaller differences a meaning as well: Use the AR-DR difference to determine if the Attack hits on a tie or not. Toss a coin if the values are equal.
• Hardened Armor: Nerf-Time! Instead of Auto-Hits, add the Hardened Armor Dice to the Soak pool. (On a side note: I also houseruled the Armor Spell to add one point of Hardened Armor for every two net hits on the Spellcasting test. Else, it´s just a worse version of the Combat Sense spell...).
• Ignore the Edge-denying effects of Imaging Scopes (just treat them like an image magnification) and Cover. These are just ridiculous, especially when they interact. Which happens a lot, since snipers tend to use cover... 
• HOWEVER: APDS Ammunition "inherits" the previous Effect of the Imaging Scope (denying Edge Gain from better armor) and also denies up to 4 bonus dice from Hardened Armor and Cover (in total for the whole test). It´s more fitting trade for -1 Damage and triple the cost.
• Flechette Ammunition actually increases the DV by 1 and adds the "(fl)" Trait to the Damage Code of the weapon, similar to previous Editions. Designated Flechette Pistols like the Ares Viper Slivergun as well as Frag Grenades also get this trait (again). When resisting against Flechette Damage of any kind, the defender adds the AR-DR difference to the Soak pool (if the DR is higher than the AR, of course).

Works nicely for me, at least so far.

[Ixal]

Works nicely for me, at least so far.

Good for you.
I don't think I and the new edge system will ever see eye to eye. For me armor has to stop bullets and not help me with cracking a file some hours later because that is what I use the edge for.

And if you have to track different types of edge (saveable, must be spend now) I really don't see any advantage of such a system over dice modifier.

[Predator1]

I have made 1 slight change, any implanted armor ie dermal plate, ortho doesn't add dice but allows the rule of 6 to apply up to its rating in dice. Honestly they should have done this for selling more off color dice for the exploding die.

[Michael Chandra]

*Maths* So basically each rating point will add an average 1/15 soak, aka 5 would equal a single Body Die, but you have the potential of larger swings.