[jtkirk22]

Hi,

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1-Edge-Boost: Pick any die and reroll it. It
can be yours or your opponent’s, but the result
stands no matter what you roll. This is
done after all rolls have been made.
In fights: If I reroll one of my dice, it's a chance of 1/3 for extra damage. If I reroll an opponent's "5" or "6" it's a chance of 2/3 that the opponent won't roll a success again.

Is that intended?

[Hobbes]

Yes.  Re-rolling opponents hits is statistically better than re-rolling your misses on opposed tests. 

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Absolutely intended. A lot of the "edge does nothing" complaining comes from people who don't get that you re-roll the opponents hits, not your own.

[Lormyr]

I've seen several complaints about Edge, but none that were "it does nothing". Has that been common?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I've seen several complaints about Edge, but none that were "it does nothing". Has that been common?

Uh, every thread ever? 

"armor does nothing, because all it does is give you edge/deny your opponent edge" ring any bells?

[Lormyr]

Armor can potentially do nothing =/= equal Edge does nothing. Drawing a direct line between those two statements/sentiments is silly. Edge is quite useful, if your worn armor actually makes the difference to net you some. . .and you know, your enemy didn't aim with the ludicrously broken scope to prevent it.

I thought you were claiming someone actually stated Edge does nothing. . .

[Michael Chandra]

Incidentally, it not only makes the reroll (and don't forget you could say 'I pay X (e.g. 3) Edge to make my opponent reroll X (3) of their hits!', but not combine both own reroll and enemy reroll) more powerful in opposed situations, it also really helps summoners, since this way they can both give themselves more services, AND reduce the drain they're facing.

[Redwulfe]

This is one of my favorite uses of edge. I try to max my armor and take cover in every fight not only does cover help increase my DR to 15-16 DR in Jacket (18-19 if I am prepped in my full armor) which helps me gain the edge it also gives me +3-4 dice on my defense pool. Then I just re-roll the opponents success when I can and it helps me from being hit at all. You can't damage what you can't effectively hit.

[Xenon]

Armor can potentially do nothing...

While you have always been quite accurate in your wording around the limitations of edge, others have not

Having said that, in the old soak dice system extra armor could also potentially do nothing since it was up to rng; 3 extra die does not automatically mean you always gain another hit.

Even if armor could potentially do nothing it also mean that in both systems a few points of more armor mean you would, on average - over many different fire fights and scenarios, take less damage / gain more tactical advantage compared to if you used less armor.

(Sorry for potentially derailing the thread, but I think OP already got a clear answer to this original question).

[Lormyr]

Well the distinction I draw is this:

In 5e, armor always did something - it always added dice. Those dice just may not have worked out in your favor when rolling, but you still got those dice.

In 6e, if your DR is already sufficient to gain and/or deny edge, then the armor actually does nothing.

To me that is a significant difference, between doing something that may not work out due to RNG vs. actually not doing anything. Others may not see it the same, and that's fine.

I also still think that linking a sentiment of "armor does nothing" to "edge does nothing" is folly, because armor is only one very minor contributor to how edge can be gained. Are the two potentially related? Totally. But when you open up the spectrum of how one can gain edge, they are second cousins at best.

[Xenon]

Semantics.

You don't know beforehand what negative or positive modifiers you will have on your defense rating in every single future scenario and you also don't know beforehand what attack rating that will be attacked by.


In 5e, armor always did something - it always added dice. Those dice just may not have worked out in your favor when rolling, but you still got those dice.

In 6e, armor also always does something - it always add defense rating (which is used to deny the enemy a tactical advantage and also used to grant you a tactical advantage of your own). The extra defense rating just may not have worked out in your favor depending on the attack rating, but you still got that extra defense rating.

The different amount of damage you take while being naked and while having full body battle armor was of course much bigger in 5th edition (as most of the damage resistance came from armor in that edition). In 6E damage codes have instead been reduced across the board and the remaining resistance will be made up almost exclusivity by your body rating (which mean both extremely high and extremely low armor rating values have a much smaller effect in this edition than it used to have in the previous edition).

[Redwulfe]

Another factor that should be noted on wether to armor up or not is cover. In almost every fight I want cover since it adds to me defense test making it specifically harder to put damage on me due to having less net hits after resolution.

Cover denies you from gaining edge while attacking this limits your ability to gain edge to needing a larger DR and environmental during defense.

[Lormyr]

Semantics.

Maybe, but I personally believe the values are not equal.

Bonus dice are always of benefit, even if an individual roll did not help. That is a failure of random number generation, not a failure of the affect failing to be beneficial. A brief aside bonus dice are the most mechanically powerful element in the game, followed closely by re-rolls.

Armor on the other hand, yes, it always adds a static number to your DR - but it is possible that that particular number does not sufficiently boost your DR to a point where it grants you edge or denies your opponent edge, therefore the affect does nothing. With the exception of melee attacks now, ranged attacks have such a compact AR number range across the board that there is unlikely to be a lot of swing in the value of armor. It will either help you frequently if you are low to mid-range without armor, or it will likely help you rarely or never if you were already high range DR without it.

I am not a linguistical genius to use to the most appropriate language to highlight what makes constantly applied bonus dice that fail to get hits in a particular instance different from the increased DR of armor not making a difference on a particular attack, but to me the difference between those two situations is significant.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Armor that gives you bonus dice in 5e still "does something" even when those bonus dice result in no hits, yet armor that gives you bonus DR in 6we "does nothing" when that bonus DR doesn't change the edge picture?

If that's how you feel, I don't think we have a bridgeable gap between perspectives here.

[Lormyr]

Yes, and yes.

Bonus dice can or should (depending on the number) reliably provide bonus hits.

Armor taking my DR from say 8 to 12? That is probably useful to me. Armor taking my DR from 22 to 26? Not really. In the vast majority of cases in the later, it is doing nothing, and not just due to mathematical probability, it is doing nothing by design.

Again, someone more eloquent than I could probably explain it better, but those two things are not remotely the same to me. You can't argue with math.