[Xenon]

Got a question on Reddit if you could have both Logic 6 and Magic 6 during chargen,

Since I know SR5, my immediate answer was; "Sure, the limitation only apply to Physical and Mental Attributes, not Special Attributes."

But then I started to compare RAW between the two editions.....

Characters at character creation may only have 1 Mental or Physical attribute at their natural maximum limit; the special attributes of Magic, Edge, and Resonance are not included in this limitation.

As described on p. 37, attributes fall into three different groups: Physical, Mental, and Special. All metahuman characters have a rank in each of their Physical and Mental attributes, but some may not have ranks in the Special attributes.

...

During character creation, only one attribute may be at the maximum for the selected metatype.

In 5th edition it was clear that the limit was explicitly only affecting Mental Attributes and Physical Attributes, and explicitly not Special Attributes. The chapter was also explicitly named "Mental and Physical Attributes"

In 6th edition the wording have changed and if you go by a strict reading of RAW the limitation now seem to apply to Attribute in general (as in all three categories; Physical, Mental and Special) rather than just Physical and Mental attributes specifically. The chapter was also just named "Attributes".

Deliberate change from SR5, or victim for word count cutting??

[Michael Chandra]

Magic and Resonance do not have metatype-based Maximums.

[Leith]

Also it cannot apply to all special attributes since essence, like magic and resonance,  does not have a metatype max and also starts maxed out with severe penalties for decreasing it.

[Xenon]

The maximum rank for your special attributes (if you have them) are 6. This might be modified by metatype and/or chosen qualities (Humans, for example, have a maximum rank of 7 for the Special Attribute Edge / if you pick the Impaired (Magic) I negative quality then you have a maximum rank of 5 for the Special Attribute Magic).



The rule currently use the word 'Attribute'. Attributes have been are defined at two separate places as:

Attributes come in three groups: Physical, Mental, and Special.

As described on p. 37, attributes fall into three different groups: Physical, Mental, and Special

...which mean that with a strict reading of the rule you get this:

During character creation, only one Physical, Mental or Special attribute may be at the maximum for the selected metatype.

If the intent is still that it work as in 5th edition then here are 3 good alternative texts that are less ambiguous:

During character creation, only one Physical or Mental attribute may be at the maximum for the selected metatype.

During character creation, only one attribute may be at the maximum for the selected metatype; the special attributes of Magic, Edge, Resonance and Essence are not included in this limitation.

During character creation, only one Physical or Mental attribute may be at the maximum for the selected metatype; the special attributes of Magic, Edge, Resonance and Essence are not included in this limitation.

Similar mistake was done with Cyberlimbs (calling out all attributes within the general Physical Attribute group rather than explicitly listing Strength and Agility -- this is now fixed).

[Michael Chandra]

They're not in the Metatype-based attribute table. Ergo, they do not have a metatype-based maximum. Ergo, Magic, Resonance and Essence do not count for this limit no matter how you read it.

[Xenon]

It is quite a leap going from 'only one attribute...' =>  'only one attribute of the attributes listed in the attribute table...', but at least they mentioned the attribute table above in a previous paragraph so I guess this is something I can use at least.... Thanks.


(This also mean that if you max out Edge, which is one of the attributes listed in the attribute table, then you cannot also max out any other physical or mental attributes, yes?)

[Leith]

"Maximum for selected Metatype" and "metatype-based maximum" are not necessarily synonymous and even if they are... All attributes default to a max of 6 min of 1, but some characters don't have an initial rank in special attributes and the ranges are modified by metatype.

Except magic and resonance.
 
And logic and intuition.

The maximum magic for an ork is 6 because that's the default, if the table told you it was different then it's different, but it doesn't so it's not. That is the max for that metatype.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I expect that the intent is that all special attributes are exempted. I.e. same as 5th edition.

However, the RAW muddies this.

My reading is that the maximum applies to every attribute that has a racial maximum. So that includes all physical, all mental, and of the special attributes only edge is subject to the rule.