[Murmur]

So me and my friend are just getting into Shadowrun. We want to make characters that are supposed to be just starting out, and will be going on their very first run. I'm just wondering what a good starting BP is for some characters that are supposed to be brand new runners with hardly any experience at all. We don't mind having to work for Karma to improve ourselves.

He's going to be a combat heavy build, and I am going to be a hacker of some kind. I would like to be a technomancer but I get the feeling that's going to be damn near impossible to enjoy where I am starting at a lower BP.

Also, we plan on taking turns being GM and writing our own runs and stuff, so we don't have to worry about fitting in with what some other players want.

[Charybdis]

400BP is the recommended starting point. While this is meant to reflect someone who's already a Shadowrunner, it's also the only way for any of the resource intensive archtypes (Rigger, Street Sam etc) to afford the toys they need to be competitive.

That is, unless your GM is REALLY generous in allowing previous grade Ware (Wired Reflexes, Control Rigs etc) ripped out and replaced...

I've played a 300BP campaign, but it was very hard to play anything than Magical archtypes...and that was still difficult... I don't recommend a starting BP lower than 400.

[nakano]

I have run a few campaigns at 400 points, and the feel that I get looking at the characters when finished, is that unless they are totally minmaxed, is that they must be pretty new to the shadows, so I would definately agree with Charybdis, that 400 works. 

[esprism]

400 BP is nice to start with.

A good advice is to make well balanced characters with a strong idea behind them.

Spend your BP according to your character, not with strong optimisation and you'll have what you want.

One of my characters was designed to be a "new" runner. For some reason he was implanted with some good bioware and was pulled into shadows but he was a old troll bouncer loser with some skills (grew up in the street and manipulated by bad guys) but was designed to be an exceptional guitarist (47 BP and deep bg) with 16 BP contacts of his old life linked with M.O.M. activists and only 2000 nuyens of gear.

He is quite weak but really fun to play.

[Murmur]

Thanks for the advice guys. 400 BP it is. Yeah I'm not much for min-maxing, I just want to make a character that I identify with so it sounds like i'll do just fine with that.

[Fizzygoo]

If totally new to Shadowrun there's another reason to use the 400 BP (even if the PCs are still new to running the shadows) which is; Most pre-made modules/adventures/runs will have the 400 BP in mind, so if the GM is also new and uses pre-made runs then you run the risk of higher probability towards TPK.

Another way to limit the "experience" of the PCs at creation is to drop the Attribute/Skill max's down. So instead of only one skill starting out at 6, it's now 5, and so on, And this can also be carried over to equipment, programs, equipment availability, etc. Players can then be encouraged to spend that "extra" BP on rounding out skill sets, buying more contacts, etc.

[Triggvi]

you might look into karmagen for your starting characters. it has finer controls than the BP and you tend to get more rounded characters. It makes a less viable character if you min max with karmagen.

Runner Companion for karmagen

[Medicineman]

Thanks for the advice guys. 400 BP it is. Yeah I'm not much for min-maxing, I just want to make a character that I identify with so it sounds like i'll do just fine with that.

Why don't You go for Adept ?
Your Char can be a better B&E specialist, a better Hacker, an athletics expert....
This goes well with your partner  the Combat Heavy Guy

with a better Dance
Medicineman

[The Seven]

Hell, just go with 1000BPs and make an insect shaman.

[Murmur]

Why don't You go for Adept ?
Your Char can be a better B&E specialist, a better Hacker, an athletics expert....
This goes well with your partner  the Combat Heavy Guy

with a better Dance
Medicineman

Well the idea is to not be a better anything. We want to have a bunch of misadventures and barely get the job done, but damn it we got the job done. I'm just about the opposite of a power gamer/min-max. I'm more like min-min. I want to put myself in un-escapable situations and not even escape. If I am facing certain death, I want to certainly die. And I don't want "certain death" to be 46 well armed trolls, 4 tanks, and nuclear bomb that is about to go off. More like 1 well armed troll with an angry look on his face. I want to have to think my way through things, and not just thinking as in doing the math to get my 25+ dice pool.

Not for everyone, I know. But hey. My boat is floating.

[Lumus Avatar]

I'm just about the opposite of a power gamer/min-max. I'm more like min-min. I want to put myself in un-escapable situations and not even escape. If I am facing certain death, I want to certainly die.

Not for everyone, I know. But hey. My boat is floating.

You have no idea how much respect I have for this point of view, in general. Playing these games is not supposed to be about stomping NPCs, it's supposed to be about role playing an interesting character in a strange world. I applaud this idea.
400 BP is the standard for starting runners. no matter what type of runner you make there is always tons of room for improvement and redirection so don't worry, you will not be overpowered. But just remember, Even a 25 dice pool can Critical Glitch! My friend recently Glitched an 18 dice dodge roll and got taken out by a Professional Rating 3 Security Guard with a Stun Baton. Anything can happen!

[Sid]

Isn't 300-350 BP the point for entry level runners, as opposed to starting characters?

[Kontact]

Isn't 300-350 BP the point for entry level runners, as opposed to starting characters?

Yeah, but it takes a good deal of familiarity to build a 300bp character who won't just get splattered.
Entry-level runners, sure, but for entry-level players playing entry-level runners, I'd stay 350 and above, or, as has been mentioned go karma.

[Medicineman]

I want to have to think my way through things, and not just thinking as in doing the math to get my 25+ dice pool.
Not for everyone, I know. But hey. My boat is floating.

Okkkayihh...but do you want your Boat leaky and rotten or sturdy?
You want to "clear the obstacles" by Thinking. Great,(I like it that way too )but what if the char can't fallow through because he is simply inept ? "I need to Jump from Roof to Roof to escape the angry Troll...Hmmm shit,my Char has only a Pool of 6 Dice and I need 3 Successes and I ran out of Edge...."
There is nothing against using your own Brain, Its even better than to simply hope that a High Pool can solve everything, but it's futile if the Char "can't follow through" (Is that the right expression ?)
especially iIf there are only two Players/Chars ,than you need a little Help ant that might be in Form of Adept Powers

and Please (Please !) don't fall for the Stormwind Fallacy ! Just because soemone has a competent Char
He's not necesserilly  a bad RolePlayer

He who Rocks in the Boat
Medicineman

[Murmur]

Okkkayihh...but do you want your Boat leaky and rotten or sturdy?
You want to "clear the obstacles" by Thinking. Great,(I like it that way too )but what if the char can't fallow through because he is simply inept ? "I need to Jump from Roof to Roof to escape the angry Troll...Hmmm shit,my Char has only a Pool of 6 Dice and I need 3 Successes and I ran out of Edge...."
There is nothing against using your own Brain, Its even better than to simply hope that a High Pool can solve everything, but it's futile if the Char "can't follow through" (Is that the right expression ?)
especially iIf there are only two Players/Chars ,than you need a little Help ant that might be in Form of Adept Powers

and Please (Please !) don't fall for the Stormwind Fallacy ! Just because soemone has a competent Char
He's not necesserilly  a bad RolePlayer

I want to start off with a rotten and leaky boat and upgrade to a sturdy one in the distant future. And I wont be taking any jobs that seem out of my league. If I'm stuck doing crappy jobs that pay next to nothing, I don't mind. I like to go slow. I'm extremely new to Shadowrun, so my character's overall potential is pretty much limited to my own knowledge of the game and its rules. By taking it slow I can comfortably learn things as they come up. I kind of like the idea of being the guy that takes all the jobs the more skilled runners laugh at.

Also, don't worry. I'm aware that good characters don't mean bad roleplayers. I didn't mean to come across like that. I just think that starting off (keep in mind that i'm new to not only shadowrun, but pen and paper games altogether), I would be a bad roleplayer with a "competent" character. At least for the time being.