[funkytim]

I'm a bit confused how to actually make an engulf attack with a summoned spirit.  If you look at the attack listed in the book for a fire elemental is says "Engulf [(DV (F + 2)S + Fatigue I, Attack Ratings (F x 2) + 1/—/—/—/—]"

But under the power it it just says engulf (fire).  When you refer to the power it says the damage is (magic)P of a close combat attack and says nothing about Fatigue I.  I also am unsure about how much burning status to apply to the target (I assumed it was force of the spirit).

Can someone give me a walkthrough on how this attack is done?

Thanks

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Happy to help!

Although, bear in mind that many of the details will ultimately be "whatever you like", so bear in mind that there's no one objectively correct way to resolve your fire spirit's engulf attack

So, the groundwork:

First of all, it's my personal belief that the Fatigue I status probably shouldn't be applied, as per pg 223 fire engulf instead applies the burning status... and instead Air Earth and Water spirits are the ones that apply Fatigue I to their engulf.  but if you're going to play "RAW is the LAW" then I'd recommend the Fatigue wear off much faster than any Fatigue inflicted by other Spirits' engulf, out of balance's sake.

A walkthru, assuming Force 6:

The first thing you do with any attack is to compare AR to DR.  For a Force 6 spirit of fire, that's AR13.  Note that spirits cannot gain edge, but the defender still potentially can! In this case, the defender must have DR 17+ to score edge from this attack. Also, since the engulf attack only has an AR in the first range band (3 meters), that's the only range it is eligible to be made in. 

Next, per pg 223 the Engulf is executed via a Close Combat Attack.  A spirit of fire has that skill, and when a spirit has a skill its ranks = Force.  Close combat is made with Agility, and in the case of a spirit of fire that's F+2.  So when F=6, F+(F+2)=14 dice to make the Engulf attack.  If the defender gets more hits the engulf misses, otherwise the engulf hits.

If it hits, as a force 6 it does 6P fire damage.  As with most attacks, net hits on the attack raises this DV. Even if the defender soaks all the damage, the power says that the engulf still "happens".  Therefore, the engulfed victim always gains the Immobilized status (see pg. 52: this isn't total paralysis... it just means the victim can only make actions that aren't predicated on travelling. So the victim can make close combat attacks against the spirit, but they cannot simply just walk away).  Furthermore, the spirit will automatically deal this damage again round by round until its victim escapes.

Now, to the "YMMV" section: how many ranks of Burning should a spirit of fire's engulf inflict?  There's no objectively correct answer.  However.  Note that even without the burning status, the spirit is STILL doing Force damage to the victim every round.  If you give Burning X where X=Force, the victim is taking double Force in damage every round.  Kind of OP if you ask me.  Therefore my preferred way of looking at it is X = number of rounds engulfed.  First round, engulf inflicts Force DV. Then Force + 1 DV.  Then Force + 2 DV.  Up until you're dead, or you escape.

[funkytim]

Thanks.  That's how we did it the one time I used it went except for the burning status (which the target resisted anyway). He also broke free on his next action.  I was only brave enough to summon a force 3 spirit though because with a -3 damage modifier my dice pool was only 8.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I realized belatedly that there was another reference I should have cited:  Fire damage itself (pg. 110)  Of course, it just ends up saying what I was saying anyway though

Taking damage from an attack with
a Fire damage type inflicts the Burning status....
The damage and duration
are subject to your discretion if the target has
some mitigating circumstance. If they’re covered
in oil or wearing a lot of loose-fitting cloth, it
may last longer, cause more damage, or require
a higher threshold to extinguish.

So the number of Burning status "stacks" you receive should be factoring in variables specific to the given circumstance.... that is the same spirit making the same engulf attack could be inflicting more or less Burning depending on what exactly is being engulfed.

[Chopper]

SSDR,

Do you address adding Energy Aura (Fire) p223, +Magic/2 DV to Close Combat attacks in your example?

Unless I missed an errata. For Fire Force 6.

Total damage on initial attack Close Combat Engulf 6 DV + Energy Aura +3 DV = 9 DV. When the unlucky target fights back with Close Combat they resist another 6 DV (with straight body).

Disadvantage to fire spirit. Can't turn off the energy aura. Not subtle. Death is likely and will attract attention.

Advanced question (Scalability): What if there are two Fire Spirits attacking the same target?

Cheers,
Chopper

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

No, I did not factor it in.

One one hand, I simply forgot about it.  On the other hand... frag.  It's not like they NEED to stack.  Frankly, I can very sympathetically see an argument where Elemental Aura simply doesn't stack with Engulf.  Yes Elemental Aura includes the language that it applies to "any Close Combat attack", but otoh 1) spirits are enough of an "I win button" as is and fire spirits don't need that extra help 2) arguably, the Elemental Aura only exists on the exterior of the entity and once you've been engulfed within it, you're obviously "through" the aura by that point.

Anyway, if you're going to have them stack for your game, that's all the more reason to consider only a few stacks of Burning being applied on an attack.

Advanced question (Scalability): What if there are two Fire Spirits attacking the same target?

I'm not sure what the conundrum is?  If they're using Elemental Aura/"regular" Close Combat attacks, the hapless victim is looking at double the damage (assuming like Force rating) and double the stacks of Burning. (Note that I'd probably insist on making the spirits form up into a grunt group in such a circumstance.  Because, c'mon man. Do you want the GM to break out Blight capsule rounds?  That's how you get the GM to start giving the NPCs Spirit-B-GON.)

OTOH, it seems fairly obvious to me that at face value one can only be Engulfed by one critter at a time.  Now granted, Spirit 1 could engulf you, then Spirit 2 engulfs Spirit 1 and by extension, you... but I'd still say from a game mechanic point of view you're still only looking at the damage/burning from spirit 1, and spirit 1 is taking it from spirit 2.  Note that 6e mostly forgot to give spirits immunities/vulnerabilities, and by pedantic RAW Spirits of Fire are not immune to Fire damage. Lol.

Now, the intent is probably such that each spirit should be immune to its own damage type, sure.  But once you start going down that path, then should be giving each spirit vulnerabilities based on type as well.  Why Spirits of Water are the only ones who have Weaknesses, I don't know.  That's surely not the correct intent.  Of course once Fire Extinguishers start being effective on Spirits of Fire, then game balance issues start to become less of a concern...