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Question about magic and cyberware on character creation

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mdp

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« on: <03-25-11/1733:07> »
If a take a magic attribute off say 3
And some cyberware or bioware that cost lets say 0,2 essence
Does the magic attribute go down to 2 or does my maximum magic attribute sink to 5 instead of 6?

Critias

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« Reply #1 on: <03-25-11/1748:43> »
Mages with extra stuff get kind of boned in creation;  your Magic drops to a 2 (to use the above example).

mdp

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« Reply #2 on: <03-25-11/1825:58> »
That sucks
Cause if you take the latent awakening quality, and get awakend you only lose the maximum on your potential
Looking at it from that point of view
When you get your cyberware before your awakening it should have the same effect
Say your ten years old and get a datajack, then awaken on your eleventh birthday

Sichr

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« Reply #3 on: <03-25-11/1833:36> »
When you awaken from your latent awakening, you get Magic 1 no matter what essence you have lost, at least what I understand an play in my games. About that maximum magic attribute...well there was wery interresting debate somewhere on forums. If you got enought karma, you are able to get unlimited power. You raise your magic, then you raise your initiation and so on and so on...until you become G.O.D. itself.

Glyph

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« Reply #4 on: <03-27-11/2301:27> »
If a take a magic attribute off say 3
And some cyberware or bioware that cost lets say 0,2 essence
Does the magic attribute go down to 2 or does my maximum magic attribute sink to 5 instead of 6?

Both, actually.  Your Magic Attribute goes down by one, and the maximum also goes down by one.  Despite this, getting some 'ware for an awakened character can be worth it, especially for adepts.

With the latent awakening quality, you start out with a Magic of 1, although any implants will still reduce your maximum Magic rating.  This is an exception to the normal rules.  It has its own disadvantages, though.  If you awaken as a mage, you will be starting out with no awakened skills or spells.  If you awaken as an adept, you will still be a guy with Magic of 1 and, likely, light if any implants - so you will be behind the power curve compared both to normal adepts, and to mundanes who are heavily augmented.

nub5

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« Reply #5 on: <03-31-11/0132:36> »
You may want to try to talk to you GM about a houserule that this doesn't happen if you really want cyberware at character creation.  It make sense if you got your cyberware installed before you became awakened.

Medicineman

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« Reply #6 on: <03-31-11/0142:23> »
When you awaken from your latent awakening, you get Magic 1 no matter what essence you have lost, at least what I understand an play in my games. About that maximum magic attribute...well there was wery interresting debate somewhere on forums. If you got enought karma, you are able to get unlimited power. You raise your magic, then you raise your initiation and so on and so on...until you become G.O.D. itself.
Exactamundo
You Emerge with MAG 1 (or if late Technomancer with RES 1) only your max MAG is tied to your Essence
so with Ess 3 your max MAG can only be 3 (than you have to initiate)

but these are the rules for "Transforming" ingame

Say your ten years old and get a datajack, then awaken on your eleventh birthday
No, by RAW you still loose the Point MAG
And I think its ok this way as it prevents a lot of unnessecarry Min/Maxing and Thoughts of Powerplay
like: Ok, I Implant 'ware for 5 Essencepoints, just adding the Backgroundstory that its been implanted before my Chars awakening,buy him the Mage advantage than raise his MAG to 5 and Presto a Cybermage with MAG 5 and 5 Essencepoints of 'ware

By the Way If your Char is born in the 2060s a Datajack becomes obsolete because a Trodenet works just as efficiently and you don't need Brainsurgery !!

with an affirmative Dance
Medicineman
« Last Edit: <03-31-11/0150:28> by Medicineman »
http://english.bouletcorp.com/2013/08/02/the-long-journey/
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mdp

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« Reply #7 on: <03-31-11/0234:55> »
Quote
Say your ten years old and get a datajack, then awaken on your eleventh birthday
No, by RAW you still loose the Point MAG
And I think its ok this way as it prevents a lot of unnessecarry Min/Maxing and Thoughts of Powerplay
like: Ok, I Implant 'ware for 5 Essencepoints, just adding the Backgroundstory that its been implanted before my Chars awakening,buy him the Mage advantage than raise his MAG to 5 and Presto a Cybermage with MAG 5 and 5 Essencepoints of 'ware

Wasn't realy what I was thinking about, besides if you make a mage and want money for cyberimplants worth 5 essence points you're gone need a hell of a lot more then 400 bp to get it done.

Medicineman

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« Reply #8 on: <03-31-11/0501:41> »
I din't want to Imply that this is your thinking !
I just wanted to say that the Rules prevent such thinking.
And such a Char can easily be done
 40-50 BP for 200.000-250.000  Ą
15 BP Quality Mage
200 BP for Attributes
40 BP for MAG 5

No Prob at all

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Medicineman
http://english.bouletcorp.com/2013/08/02/the-long-journey/
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Sichr

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« Reply #9 on: <03-31-11/0508:52> »
Well, as another thread says:
Magic maximum=magic +initiation. Magic should be raised with karma. so:
Raise magic to your maximum, then initiate, raise magic again, initiate...never ending story. And black hole for karma.

Lumus Avatar

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« Reply #10 on: <04-04-11/1125:47> »
The way I understand the Magic rules: when you take the Magician, Adept or Mystic Adept Quality, you start with a magic rating of 1. (It directly states this under the quality in the 20th anniversary, essentially 4th edition, Shadowrun handbook.) If you cyber during character creation for a mage, the cybering takes place "at the end of character creation." By this, I mean that you Magic rating and Maximum magic rating get reduced at the end of character creation.
By this logic, If you want a magic user who has 4 magic and cyber/bioware costing 0.5 essence, then you must first buy (with Build Points) 5 magic (40 BP) and then reduce both current magic rating and maximum magic rating by 1.
Likewise, if you spend 1.05 Essence on upgrades, then for magic purposes you have 4 Essence (even though it's actually 4.9, it rounds down to the nearest number.) and so you must buy 6 Magic (65 BP) and then reduce it by 2 points to 4 due to essence loss. The reason for this is that you are going to your natural maximum, so you must pay the same number of BP as anyone else, you don't get special treatment just because you chose to lower your essence, especially since the cybering can give you great advantages!

My latest Magician has exactly 5 essence and 5 Magic. I spent 65 BP on his magic rating to make it 6, then the essence loss lowered it to 5. I got level 4 cybereyes with Thermographic Vision, Flare Compensation, the works. I got an internal airtank, and I got Orthoskin rating 1. Because of this, I can drop a smoke grenade or a flashpak and still cast with almost no penalty (assuming the enemy is not using thermal damping), I can easily survive inhalation vector toxins, and I roll 14 dice to resist gunfire damage.

As you can see, the essence loss and extra spent BP balances out in the end, and you can have a really effective (practical) character.

This is how I interpret the rules. Obviously it differs from many other people, but hopefully it helps.
If I use your eyes to shoot the target, that just means it was a team effort.

Medicineman

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« Reply #11 on: <04-04-11/1429:49> »
This is how I interpret the rules.
and its totally correct  :D
(except, in your example
even though it's actually 4.9, it rounds down to the nearest number.
His Essence is actually 4,95 ,but nevermind everything else is correct)

with an affirmative Dance
Medicineman
« Last Edit: <04-04-11/1431:53> by Medicineman »
http://english.bouletcorp.com/2013/08/02/the-long-journey/
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1V7fi5IqYw
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RYlAPjyNm8

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« Reply #12 on: <04-05-11/1339:12> »
Yeah, I noticed I dropped the .05 after I reread the post after it was posted... oh well.
I'm glad to know that my understanding wasn't totally off base and others read it the same way  ;D
If I use your eyes to shoot the target, that just means it was a team effort.

 

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