[LonePaladin]

I've been considering a house rule regarding spellcasting/summoning and Drain. Specifically, I'm looking at one of two options:

• Dice can be withheld from the initial test (Spellcasting, Summoning, Binding, etc.). These dice transfer to the Drain Test on a 1:1 basis.
• Hits from the initial test can be withheld from the results, and added to the Drain Test. Not sure yet if this could include excess hits (i.e., if you roll more hits than the spell's Force).

Either of these could be a viable way to represent someone with a lot of dice translating it into better control of the spell/summoning, by channeling it more carefully.


Nitpick the heck out of this, please. Find ways that it could be broken, or offer suggestions on how to prevent breakage.

[Walks Through Walls]

The big problem with the first I see is that with spell casting at least you could overcast for additional dice then pull off dice from the test to help with the drain. With the summoning and binding this isn't as big of a problem, but if someone uses a lot of foci or fetishes to get extra dice you now are allowing them to add to the drain if they want.

The second I see even bigger problems. I cast a spell at say a mid level then if it is an unopposed test where I don't need a lot of successes I take most of my successes to aid with my drain. With combat spells or any opposed test I take the number of successes I think I'll need to overcome my opponent and then again dump the rest into drain. Now I get my regular drain test. This is going to allow overcasting without much fear of damage (or summoning higher level spirits) or when casting I can go for the big bang big drain spells with little fear of damage.

My experience is that shadowrun is pretty well balanced and any time you start giving extra dice to tests you risk unbalancing the game. This is especially true when it comes to magic which is already dangerous and powerful.

[Chaemera]

I'm with Walk Through Walls, the main way that a skilled caster shows off that he's skilled is by having a bigger dice pool that allows him to reliably get close to the maximum number of hits for a spell. Letting him then more easily avoid the drain of a spell (which already isn't that hard) makes him far more powerful.

Spells don't have ammo, they have drain. Don't ignore drain unless you're also willing to ignore ammo. These house rules would easily allow a well-built mage to ignore drain, and the overcasting would commence.

When a system works as designed pretty well, don't tinker with it without very good reason.

[Ten-Hex]

The removal of the ability to reserve spellcasting test dice for drain is probably the best thing they did to the magic system in 4th edition. It was so easy to imbalance spellcasters in SR pre-4th. I would hesitate before doing much to change the size of drain pools.

The closest we come in my home campaign is a house rule that allows spellcasting, summoning, banishing, and binding foci to apply their bonus dice to either the initial test or drain test (incompatible with a power focus in either case). That was done to add value to non-power foci, because the marginal increase in costs of power foci combined with the exclusivity of using one focus per test was making people ignore pretty much any focus other than counterspelling, power, sustaining, and weapon foci.

[LonePaladin]

Very good points from all three of you. Thanks. +1 to each of ya.

[Chaemera]

The closest we come in my home campaign is a house rule that allows spellcasting, summoning, banishing, and binding foci to apply their bonus dice to either the initial test or drain test (incompatible with a power focus in either case). That was done to add value to non-power foci, because the marginal increase in costs of power foci combined with the exclusivity of using one focus per test was making people ignore pretty much any focus other than counterspelling, power, sustaining, and weapon foci.

I address that issue by making Power foci with a Force above 3 the equivalent of deltaware. You want it? It's going to literally become the objective of a player-driven storyline to get it. Not too big of one, mind you, but enough. I use the availability of the focus as the Threshold for finding information on where one might be in the world, the cost shows up in the form of bribes, travel expenses, etc. If you want to build your own with a focus formula, the formula are almost as rare & well guarded, and you'll never make anything but the lowest Force power focus without at least one exotic reagent (Street Magic, pg 83).

Force 3 and lower power foci are still rare and hard to come by, but not "story arc" worthy. More like if they manage to really impress their talismonger, she'll open up her "special stock" to them, or they manage to accomplish every objective of the mission, the Johnson might offer it as a bonus for a job thoroughly well done.

[The Seven]

Make them resist the DV with Body tests! That'd kill the mood, and they'd be rolling adepts in no time.