[Hobbes]

For your "What If....?" entertainment this week.  Multi-Attack and Anticipation, and their cousins Full Auto and Wide Burst.  How would you do it in 6E?

My own personal take:

Multi Attack, minor action.  Divide the appropriate dice pool, or pools if using multiple weapons, by the number of Attacks taken.  Distribute Attacks as desired.

4 Edge Boost: Anticipate (Move Action, Attack Action).  Attack up to 4 Targets, still limited by ammunition, reach, and enemy placement.  Your Attacks may be made at any point during the Move.  Use your full dice pool for one or two Targets.  Subtract 4 Dice on each attack for three Targets.  Subtract 8 Dice on each attack for Four Targets.  You may use SS, SA or a Narrow Burst on each Target, limited by Ammunition and Weapon Fire Rate.

Full Auto, no change from 6e CRB.

Wide Burst, no change from 6e CRB. 

How would you do it?

[Xenon]

From SRM FAQ;

When do I use Multiple Attack and when do I use Firing Modes? How do they interact?
The ONLY time you use Multiple Attacks with firearms is when you are simultaneously attacking with more than one gun. Until it's possible to have more than 2 hands, this means the practical limit on the number of guns you can simultaneously Multiple Attack with is 2.
If you employ Anticipation while hosing a room down with two automatic weapons at the same time, it works thusly: You must split your dice between the two guns, via the Multiple Attacks minor action. Anticipation allows you to refill your dice pool to full for each gun. If you then further split dice pools via BF Wide Bursts or FA attacks, Anticipation is NOT refilling these split dice pools.

What about shooting one victim with two guns? Do I get to double my dice pool by splitting it, then refilling them via Anticipation?
No.
Note that Anticipation (pg. 47, SR6W) refills your dice pool on a per target basis, not on a per attack basis. If you split your dice pool into two attacks on one victim, you still have your full dice pool. It's just spread across two attacks!

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I think the question is more: "if you COULD change it, what would you change it to?"  Or does the SRM FAQ nail it for you, Xenon?

[Hobbes]

And the SRM FAQ stops me from getting my 40k style gun kata on.  What if I want to stab this fool *and* shoot another one at the same time?   ; )

But yes, the Missions team did a good job of sorting it out and provides an option that sticks with RAW.

[Michael Chandra]

I only allow Anticipation with dual-wielding and SS/SA/BF. This limits it to max 4 attacks on normal people. If someone invested in Ambidextrous and brings 2 guns (which gets in the way of reloading), I don't see a need to restrict them at this point. Full Auto is not Multiple Attacks, so isn't compatible with Anticipation.

Granted, I know of two ways around that limit of 4, one of them available in CRB, but in that case I still don't see the need to restrict them. If you're rigging a Roadmaster with six weapons and bring it into combat, that's a big pricetag already, so expensive enough for me to allow it. As for people with 4+ arms, I'll cross that river when I get there.

[Xenon]

What if I want to stab this fool *and* shoot another one at the same time? 

You wield a melee weapon in one hand and a firearm in the other. Then you take the multiple attacks minor action, split your pools and resolve one attack with your melee weapon and another [single shot / semi auto / narrow bust / wide bust / full auto] attack with your firearm.

[Banshee]

Personally I run it all as written with the SINGLE exception that Anticipation can only be used on separate targets. (Wgixreally isn't an exception but is just confusing enough that people can argue that side when cross referencing rules).

That means multi attack work with any weapon and attack type... just split the dice between targets.
And anticipation can be used with any multi attack, even full auto ... butbyou have to divide your attacks between separate targets.
The only limit on number of attacks for ranged is how many bullets can be "put in the air". So SS weapons must be dual wielded, SA can do 2 targets and bursting allows up however many bullets isuaed in the Burst.
Melee I limit by reach and movement which is usually on 2 to 4 targets at most.

[Michael Chandra]

Meh, Full Auto explicitly says it doesn't use Multiple Attacks, so I don't see a reason to combine that with Anticipation.

[Banshee]

Meh, Full Auto explicitly says it doesn't use Multiple Attacks, so I don't see a reason to combine that with Anticipation.

No, it says it allows multiple attacks without using the multiple attack minor action. That just means you don't have to spend an extra minor action to multi attack with FA. So works just fine as is and works with Anticipation... except FA explicitly says it can be focused on a single target and Anticipation implies (and should be clarified) must be split between multiple targets.
It's really a lot more simple and straightforward than people make it.

[Xenon]

4 edge to not split your pool when attacking two different targets with two different guns is OK.

4 edge to not split your pool when potentially attacking ten different targets with a FA weapon (or potentially 20 different targets if you dual wield them), is not OK.



(edit: and with a 'SRM reading' you also don't spend a multiple attacks minor action when using wide burst. That you just press the trigger once and your gun will automatically fire a burst of 4 bullets in a frontal cone attack against two enemies that are standing next to each other - but just like full auto you still have to split the dice pool between your two targets... IIRC that burst fire does not cost an additional minor action was also clarified in one of the translated versions.... Not sure if it was the German or the French).

[Banshee]

4 edge to not split your pool when potentially attacking ten different targets with a FA weapon (or potentially 20 different targets if you dual wield them), is not OK.

That's where GM call needs to come into play. Are there 20 available targets within a feasible firing arc? That's almost an absolute no. Even then dual weilding FA is very limiting on it's own, as that would cause reduced pools that are NOT offset by Anticipation. Anticipation only negatesvthe dice splitting aspect of the multi attack.

[MercilessMing]

Multi Attack, minor action.  Augments and gear may allow characters to make more than one attack per action. Each attack must be made against a different target.
 Use half the appropriate dice pool for each attack. 

Melee: Characters may make 1 additional attack per Initiative Die they roll.  All targets must be within melee range.  Some weapons (double bladed weapons, etc) may also provide additional attacks.

Firing Modes
When using Ranged Weapons in the primary hand, additional attacks must be against targets within X meters of each other. Ranged weapons held in the off hand do not gain the benefit of additional attacks from firing mode.
SS: Base AR, Base DV, no additional attacks.  1 ammo
SA: -2 AR, and: +1 DV OR +1 additional attack.  2 ammo
BF: -4 AR, and: +2 DV OR +2 additional attacks.  4 ammo
FA: -6 AR, and: +3 DV OR +3 additional attacks.  10 ammo

Dual Wielding: +1 additional attack, with that weapon.  When dual wielding ranged weapons with firing modes, characters must choose between making an additional attack with the off hand OR making additional attacks with the firing mode of the primary hand.  Targets do not need to be within X meters of each other when using additional attacks from dual wielding.  Additional attacks made from the off hand may be made against the same target as attacks from the primary hand.

Ambidextrous quality: Offhand may use Edge, and may gain the benefit of additional attacks from firing mode.  Characters still may not gain the benefit of additional attacks from firing mode in both hands at the same time.

(maybe-possibly-haven't thought about it much) Gun Kata: Ambidextrous characters may gain the benefits of additional attacks from firing mode in both hands at the same time (just an idea, it'd be cool to make additional attacks an effective path of high level growth)

Anticipation: Use full dice pool when making multiple attacks.

My reasoning: Splitting the dice pool at any time is usually a bad idea.  Focusing fire is normally preferred, it's a basic, effective RPG tactic.  That's why I only ever limit it to one split, regardless of number of targets.  This mode of attack still has to have a chance to be effective.  More than one split, at the dice pool numbers Shadowrun uses, almost always results in completely missing everything.  Splitting once is risky at dice pools of 12 and under.  At 16 they can be reliable in non-critical situations, at 20 it's pretty reliable in most situations except against really heavy hitters.  I have a player who is just starting to think about multiple attacks now that his firearms pool is 18.
I initially thought about giving a flat dice pool penalty for multiple attacks, but settled on splitting because it's a penalty that grows with the pool, and also doesn't sound as bad as "-6" which is what it often is. 
Since splitting multiple times per target was a self-limiting mechanic, I tied # of attacks to firing mode and other augments people can chase, something other people are doing too.
The only thing I think is wrong with Anticipation is the lack of target cap. So I didn't change it.

Edit: added clarifications and cases for multiple attacks vs one target

[Michael Chandra]

Meh, Full Auto explicitly says it doesn't use Multiple Attacks, so I don't see a reason to combine that with Anticipation.

No, it says it allows multiple attacks without using the multiple attack minor action. That just means you don't have to spend an extra minor action to multi attack with FA. So works just fine as is and works with Anticipation... except FA explicitly says it can be focused on a single target and Anticipation implies (and should be clarified) must be split between multiple targets.
It's really a lot more simple and straightforward than people make it.

Yes, and Anticipation requires Multiple Attacks, not multiple attacks. And I like the balance that way, so not letting it combine. Because the alternative is letting someone hose down a crowd of 60 people with a single attack, and I'd rather not.

[Banshee]

Meh, Full Auto explicitly says it doesn't use Multiple Attacks, so I don't see a reason to combine that with Anticipation.

No, it says it allows multiple attacks without using the multiple attack minor action. That just means you don't have to spend an extra minor action to multi attack with FA. So works just fine as is and works with Anticipation... except FA explicitly says it can be focused on a single target and Anticipation implies (and should be clarified) must be split between multiple targets.
It's really a lot more simple and straightforward than people make it.

Yes, and Anticipation requires Multiple Attacks, not multiple attacks. And I like the balance that way, so not letting it combine. Because the alternative is letting someone hose down a crowd of 60 people with a single attack, and I'd rather not.

No ... there no possible way to take out 60 in one attack (other than using grenades which is whole other issue). At most you can target 20 people if you're dual wielding FA smgs (which has other issues built into it as well) .. even then the sites to be just right. Such as firing into a nightclub full of targets or the enemy is coming at you in formation grouping with no tactical thinking what so ever. 99% of the time you going to have 6-8 viable targets and at most the option of 10 attacks.

[Xenon]

Yes, 20 targets is pushing it. Even 10 will probably not come into play very often. If ever.


But even attacking say.... 6 targets. Without splitting the pool at all. Is pretty darn OP. With a dice pool of say 18 dice you would normally only get 3 dice per target. With allowing Anticipation with FA you basically get 15 extra dice. Per target. Times Six. That's equivalent of 80(!) extra dice. For just 4 edge. That right there is game breaking powerful. There is no other Edge Boost or Edge Action that get you even remotely close to that.


A more reasonable level for just 4 edge is to let you make two attacks without splitting the pool (which the SRM reading does)
Anything beyond that.... ;-(