[Bradd]

By "range," do you mean the variety of things you can do well, or the degree at which you do them better?

If you mean variety: Elves beat trolls at sniping, sneaking, grifting, hacking, and magic. Trolls beat elves at close combat and getting shot at. Yes, trolls are very very good at those things, but I think the game is designed such that even the toughest characters will eventually die without the mission skills to back them up, and the elves are just plain better at the mission skills.

[CanRay]

Actually, IIRC, Trolls use Elves to beat things in close combat.  As a club.

Dwarves are ranged weapons for Trolls.   

[Kontact]

Strength is important?   

When did this happen?

[Bradd]

It's important if you want to kill things to death with your fists. Otherwise, Agility is far more important.

[The_Gun_Nut]

Or your programs.  Or your complex forms.  Or your willpower.  Or...well, it all depends on what you are doing.

Close combat beatery is only good for close combat.  For close quarters battle, OTOH, you need a combination of weapons and tactics to defeat your foes.  And defeat can (and often does) include "getting away from the opposition with your objectives intact."

[CanRay]

The name of the game is getting out, not racking up a body count.

Well, Kane would say differently, but he's special. 

[tbrminsanity]

What is the max value in each attribute and which race has that value?  Also what is the average of each attribute (taking the min and max from each race and finding the average) and how does the racial average of each race compare to it?

[Lumus Avatar]

You have to remember that the player can choose what race he wants to be. the races balance out in that their stat maximums cap differently, so each race is geared toward a different job.
This is not to say that you can't make any race into whatever you want it to be, only that certain races do certain jobs better.
For example, if someone wants to be a really good Face or Shaman, they might pick Elf since those jobs are Charisma based.
If someone just wants to run into the middle of the fray and either beat the living piss out of things with his fists then you'd probably pick a troll.
I personally have made 2 human street samurai and 1 troll cyberer, and I prefer the humans. (the troll has a lot more physical damage boxes but will end up being a lot harder to advance due to loss of essence in cyberware.)

It should never bother you as a GM that players choose things you don't like or understand, it's about giving the players a good game. What you can do is enforce players in ROLE PLAYING their race. they should not be choosing a race just for stats, there's a whole mentality within each metatype. ~how trolls view human, how elves view trolls, how humans feel about any given metatype-even other humans.~
Each character must have his own personality, not just shooting stats, otherwise you're just playing futuristic DnD.

[tbrminsanity]

You have to remember that the player can choose what race he wants to be. the races balance out in that their stat maximums cap differently, so each race is geared toward a different job.
This is not to say that you can't make any race into whatever you want it to be, only that certain races do certain jobs better.
For example, if someone wants to be a really good Face or Shaman, they might pick Elf since those jobs are Charisma based.
If someone just wants to run into the middle of the fray and either beat the living piss out of things with his fists then you'd probably pick a troll.
I personally have made 2 human street samurai and 1 troll cyberer, and I prefer the humans. (the troll has a lot more physical damage boxes but will end up being a lot harder to advance due to loss of essence in cyberware.)

It should never bother you as a GM that players choose things you don't like or understand, it's about giving the players a good game. What you can do is enforce players in ROLE PLAYING their race. they should not be choosing a race just for stats, there's a whole mentality within each metatype. ~how trolls view human, how elves view trolls, how humans feel about any given metatype-even other humans.~
Each character must have his own personality, not just shooting stats, otherwise you're just playing futuristic DnD.

Which is why 90% of all faces should be human (the last 10% being elves with exceptions for the other races if there is a good backstory).  Any GM worth their weight in gold will play up the ease that a human face has in getting jobs for the group over any other race (especially outside NA and race specific areas like the Tirs).  I run in a campaign in Hong Kong and we really play up the fact that the Dwarf in the group gets the butt end from every NPC (mind you it doesn't help he has a Charisma of 2). 

[Loki]

Each character must have his own personality, not just shooting stats, otherwise you're just playing futuristic DnD.

DnD, like any RPG, has as much roleplaying as the group playing is willing and interested in doing. I've had a plain battletech (not mechwarrior) mercenary "campaign" (the initial idea was basically playing battletech fights, getting paid and getting more/better mechs, ie all explosions and bookwork)  have more rp than some vampire games I've played in. Totally OT and I appologize but the myth of no rp in DnD is a pet peeve of mine.

[Lumus Avatar]

Duly Noted. My friends and I run a D&D4e every friday night. and we have played in many other peoples' games. We have yet to find a more creative group than ours in this area--We have a LOT of fun with it. I know it's not just about the fights and stats.

[Kontact]

Which is why 90% of all faces should be human (the last 10% being elves with exceptions for the other races if there is a good backstory).  Any GM worth their weight in gold will play up the ease that a human face has in getting jobs for the group over any other race (especially outside NA and race specific areas like the Tirs).  I run in a campaign in Hong Kong and we really play up the fact that the Dwarf in the group gets the butt end from every NPC (mind you it doesn't help he has a Charisma of 2).

No one "should" do anything besides have a good time.  If you want to portray prejudice, that's totally cool, but SR is still a rules-based game, and there is a mechanic for that.  "Never trust an elf" or "Blah-blah, dirty Trogs" translates into a starting social penalty of -2 for an existing prejudice.  Then there's an etiquette roll.  The elf face kills it with a huge DP, and suddenly, "never trust an elf" becomes "this guy is really sharp" and your boy has a +2 bonus now because they're suddenly friendly.  It's no guarantee, and as an etiquette test it basically has a threshold 1-2 higher than what a human might see, but to a face, prejudice is just a speedbump.

[tbrminsanity]

Which is why 90% of all faces should be human (the last 10% being elves with exceptions for the other races if there is a good backstory).  Any GM worth their weight in gold will play up the ease that a human face has in getting jobs for the group over any other race (especially outside NA and race specific areas like the Tirs).  I run in a campaign in Hong Kong and we really play up the fact that the Dwarf in the group gets the butt end from every NPC (mind you it doesn't help he has a Charisma of 2).

No one "should" do anything besides have a good time.  If you want to portray prejudice, that's totally cool, but SR is still a rules-based game, and there is a mechanic for that.  "Never trust an elf" or "Blah-blah, dirty Trogs" translates into a starting social penalty of -2 for an existing prejudice.  Then there's an etiquette roll.  The elf face kills it with a huge DP, and suddenly, "never trust an elf" becomes "this guy is really sharp" and your boy has a +2 bonus now because they're suddenly friendly.  It's no guarantee, and as an etiquette test it basically has a threshold 1-2 higher than what a human might see, but to a face, prejudice is just a speedbump.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the -2 penalty is just the basic level of prejudice (the type were if the person was called a racist they would instantly back down but they would never hold an elevator door for you).  I would amp up the penalty for more hostile individuals like Japanese Corps, Elitists, and your average openly racist individuals (yeah humanists!).

[Kontact]

For actual Humanis people and Japanese gene purists, you could very easily start their bias off at enemy for -4 to all social tests. 
There are most definitely crowds where being a human, national is really, really important.

[Lumus Avatar]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't Humanis Policlub a terrorist organization geared up for genocide against all metaraces besides humans? Isn't a little hard to say "This is why you should be a human. Look at all the discrimination!" Humanis members wouldn't bother to start with a penalty to charisma based rolls. I would believe they would shoot an elf or troll first and ask questions never.