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New (kinda) to Shadowrun with a Decker/Hackerless group.

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Trel

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« on: <06-07-11/0900:50> »
Hey Folks,

I am a member group of people who get together once a week for a few beers and a night of roleplaying (basically our version of a Card Night - an excuse for  Beers for the Boys night away from the Mrs :) ) and I have been volunteered to GM the next game. 

Last time I played Shadowrun was probably '92 (hey - thats 1992 not 1892, old I may be but even I am not that old!) give or take and things seem to have changed rather a lot since then so this may be a non-issue (I haven't read the new rules yet 20th Anniversary Edition variety - still waiting for them to arrive).  Only one other member of the group has played Shadowrun before (and again that was back in 1992 - ah those old University days).

The group is made up of old-farts that are very experienced roleplayers whose focus is basically to just have a night of fun but thats not to say that I cant put them through the mill - in fact thats expected.  I have done a straw poll and none of the group wants to player a Decker (or Hacker as they are now I believe) if only because we dont want to be in a position where the evening revolves around only one person as they hack this, that or the other.

In the past when we had a group like this we would use an NPC Decker.  Rest assured it would not be as easy as turning up and saying "hack this" it would cost them in favours etc and they would get limited information etc (you know the kind of thing I am sure) and invariably the group had to think out of the box in order to circumvent some of the tech security and all in all that worked reasonably well.

So - and finally to the question(s) -in the new edition;

  • How practical is it for a group to have no Hacker?
  • Basically what are the conceptual differences between Deckers and Hackers?
  • Are non-hackers able to (relatively) easily pick up some of the basic Hacking skills (eg opening mag-locks and so on) - it really does not have to be as easy a roll as it would be if they were actually a hacker etc?
  • Is there much tech a non-hacker can use to trick open a mag-lock, if so how easy are they to use and how available are they?


Any thoughts or comments gratefully received :)

Trel
« Last Edit: <06-07-11/0914:33> by Trel »

Canticle

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« Reply #1 on: <06-07-11/0921:08> »
Hacking is now more integrated with the rest of the experience and it is a lot more streamlined. No more battling through node maps and spending half the session on the decker alone. You spend as much time with the hacker as you would any other part of the team.
  • How practical is it for a group to have no Hacker?
  • Basically what are the conceptual differences between Deckers and Hackers?
  • Are non-hackers able to (relatively) easily pick up some of the basic Hacking skills (eg opening mag-locks and so on) - it really does not have to be as easy a roll as it would be if they were actually a hacker etc?
  • Is there much tech a non-hacker can use to trick open a mag-lock, if so how easy are they to use and how available are they?

1. Having no hacker puts the group at a big disadvantage in Seattle and most civilized sprawls. If you play in the Caribbean League, Lagos, or other more awakened focused locations then there is less to worry about.
Hackers allow for a bit more information and can do very specific legwork while still doing the cool stuff like grabbing paydata and hacking cameras.
2. Hackers are now part of the group that can come with the rest of the crew on runs. The hacker uses a commlink (which everyone has—or should have) and buys out a tonne of programs for their own purposes.
3. Anyone can pick up the Cracking and Electronics skill groups and some common programs, or the group can pick up an Agent with loaded programs to do hacking, data searches, and spoofing for them.
4. There are skeleton mag-lock keys that can be forged or bought, but I'd rather grab an Agent or two with a bunch of slotted programs.

Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #2 on: <06-08-11/1846:58> »
A hackerless group is at a disadvantage, but it can be worked around.

Canticle is right in that the hacker is no longer a sidetrack to the game. One of the big improvements in my opinion is the way the streamlining of matrix actions. A hackerless team can get along, but will be at a disadvantage. The idea of hiring out the help works and I have used it in the campaign I am running right now because the group started with no hacker. Now it is adding two players and it looks like it will pick up a hacker and a technomancer so that issue is gone.

The basic info gathering and basic skills can easily be picked up by another character which would help limit the liability.

To answer your question about hackers vs deckers. The biggest difference is the deck is gone and now you only need a commlink (and a good hacker will hot sim it) and programs that can be loaded right on it. That and the world has gone wireless. Augmented reality is everywhere and overlaid on the real world.

As far as maglocks go you need hardware skill to open up the maglock and then can use tech to try and fool the lock. A character would spend about 20000 nuyen if I remember right to get the top of the line tech available at character creation. It will give you a good shot at defeating the lock, but will be slower and more obvious than a hacker taking over the system and overriding the locks.

Hope this helps
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Walks Through Walls

Denver Doc

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« Reply #3 on: <06-09-11/0221:21> »
Just like any game its up to the GM on how big a deal it is going to be.  Some dungeons and dragons game groups have no rogue.  Some sword and sorcery game groups have no sorcerer.  Obviously they will have to work on getting around the problem in new and inventive ways or have the GM insert some useful tool or NPC to pick up the slack.

While I certainly agree with the former posters that hacking is much more integrated in SR4 I did want to say that I have seen it slow down many a gaming group.  There is a great deal of information on that link. You need to decide about every slotting person they might encounter and what that person has on their link.  Most folks say that there is simply no pay data on the link, or if their is something important thats what you get, but so much data is contained therein that an imaginative hacker (or a real world IT guy) is going to have a lot of legitimate points about the type of data on that link that can be useful.  For example that random guy you thought was important but wasn't... where does he work, what does he have access to, what kind of hobbies does he have, does he have a family, where does he live, whats his SIN, what kind of car does he drive, who's link #s does he have, whats his bank account #, does he have any bad habits you find out about? Much of that is straight up pay data if its sold to the right person(s) and also can lead to all manner of other chaos.

Another concern is the depth of hacking you want to do.  Getting into a link is just the beginning in many cases.  There is dodging IC, dodging spiders, getting into connected nodes and/or devices and how to manipulate objects to get what you want.  Is it encrypted, is there a data bomb, more IC, hidden nodes, etc. ?   Then there are agents to deal with and how they can degrade based on the node they are going into.   

Personally I like hacking a lot but unless the GM and I are both on the same page, I am either way to much trouble or every person's link is rating 6 or higher with multiple IC to match.  Or the reverse is true and the players get into the link but have no idea what they want to do there or how to do it. 

Generally I consider the lack of a archetype a kind of a free pass in my games.  I can build barriers that they need great inventiveness or special people to overcome or I can drop troublesome elements from the game where I basically just build as part of the story.  Such as worrying about enemy hackers that should be trying to use the same dirty tricks on the runners that they are using on the target.  My favorite mechanism to date is to have a free AI take up residence in the runner's link.  Provides a great mechanism for role playing plus helps the runners and the AI.  Another option is that one of the runners can get a few more nuyen in the initial runs as the team "hacker" he can run a agent or two that have a variety of hacking skills.  If they don't want to deal with any of the hacking you already have the agent's stats and you can figure it out as needed if the agent is able to do what they need. 

Even though it is pretty unreasonable that any professional team could get by without a hacker, there are always alternatives.  In the end you just have to make your game work the way thats fun for you and them, with or without a hacker.
Tell the doctor where it hurts.

Trel

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« Reply #4 on: <06-13-11/0641:02> »


Thanks very much for the feedback, much appreciated :)

Having flicked through the rules now as well, it is certainly easier to integrate the hacker into the group than before, however knowing the group they will probably still not play one *mutters something about bloody awkward players*  ;)

I would agree wholeheartedly (and this has come up many times over the years) that because the party are missing a <insert class> in a game of <whatever> then sure thats up to them.

it should not make anythign impossible because the fun is the important thing and it is not a lot of fun just to turn around and say "Nope, you cant do anythign because ..." but sure as heck they had better come up with a cunning plan, think out of the box, or work hard to charm an NPC that can do some of the work for them :)

I have a month or so before we finish off our current game (Mage) so plenty of time to build the world, NPCs etc and cater for this

Cheers

Trel


PS   I do like the Fourth Edition, it incorporates a lot of what I remember being in the expansions (Physical Adepts etc) and the rules seem to be smoother and allow for a more flowing style of game play - am looking forward to getting back into the slime n grime of the Shadowrun world :)


 

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