[DWC]

@DWC,

I'm actually considering getting the extra implanted commlinks just to run more agents.  In Missions, we have to have to pay for every single copy of every program that we want to run.  No running two copies of an agent simultaneously, no running two copies of exploit (one for me and one for the mook), etc.  It's no big deal, but I do like the daisy-chain idea for the commlinks for that purpose alone.

The Missions rules for copying software really do put agent swarms well out past the point of diminishing returns, which is deliberate.  Glad you like the "cyberlimb nexus", by the way.  It's even more handy for drone diggers who rely on Remote Control mode, since they can load up on cheap R4 commlinks to build their super node, then use an optimized Command program, and instead spend cash on beefing up drone nodes.

That reminds me, I need to sort out my TM for Gencon, on the offhand chance that my. Current Missions character is a terrible fit for a table I get mustered to.

[Charybdis]

I don't know, well, anything about Technomancers or sensor suites, but just on skills and guns....

You've said primary weapon is the MGL-6 (Heavy weapons @1), but then have Pistols @6. Just a fluff thing mainly, but your description of the PC doesn't match the skillsets...

On  the weapons, there are too many slots being used for modifications (normal maximum is 6):
- Ruger thunderbolt: Small Firing Selection + Personalised Grip + Extended Clip + Internal Smartlink + Sound suppressor = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 7.
   Fix: Make the Smartlink an External component. This may have been the original intent, as the cost you've listed is 400 (whereas an Internal Smartlink would be weapon cost = 750)

- Morrissey Elan:  Internal Smartgun + Silencer + Electronic Firing + Extended clip = 1 + 2 + 2 + 1 = 6... all good
Note: This is all good, but How the heck did you get a Facility level modification on your gun (being the Electronic Firing)? They'd have to redesign the whole thing, so is this thing some weird and wacky prototype from somewhere?

- MGL-6:   Additional Clip +  Personalised Grip + Barrel reduction + Smartgun = 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 5... all good
Note: As morrissey, How the heck did you get a Facility level modification on your gun (being the Additional Clip)? They'd have to redesign the whole thing, so is this thing some weird and wacky prototype from somewhere?
A BUNCH of people would want to take this gun from you if they knew of its existence....

[DWC]

If the internal smartlink is either bought as an accessory, or the weapon is purchased as the "Smart" variant, there's no need to spend a modification slot on it.

As for the modifications that require a Facility, maybe he slipped some cash to a guy in the gun cages at Fort Lewis that he used to serve with, and got the work done that way.  Maybe he stole it from someone else who made it for himself.  Either one is a viable explanation for why he has them.

[Charybdis]

If the internal smartlink is either bought as an accessory, or the weapon is purchased as the "Smart" variant, there's no need to spend a modification slot on it.

As for the modifications that require a Facility, maybe he slipped some cash to a guy in the gun cages at Fort Lewis that he used to serve with, and got the work done that way.  Maybe he stole it from someone else who made it for himself.  Either one is a viable explanation for why he has them.

If the weapon is listed with Smartlink as a standard option, no mod slots required
If the weapon uses an external smartlink, no mod slots required
If the weapon is bought, and requires an after-market internal smartlink, then it costs a mod slot.

As for the facility, there is a fluff description somewhere in that a Facility modification requires redesigning the weapon from the ground up (like making an Assault cannon Full-Auto with a large firing mod...)
A facility is more than a Gun cage at the local weaponsmith. It's a 100,000 nuyen room with machining tools, spare parts, ballistics chamber testing etc etc etc)

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it needs to be explained, as custom improvements on that scale are not common....

[UmaroVI]

It might be good to explain it, but I wouldn't say it's really a problem with the character. Here's a few example explanations I cooked up off the top of my head:

Plenty of organizations (megacorps, governments, but also criminal organizations most likely) have access to those shops. The character did a job for one of them and was paid in gear customization.

His character didn't get the gun modified - someone else who does own a facility got a bunch of those guns modified, then sold them on the black market for a fat profit. His character just ended up with one, but doesn't know where it originated from.

He knows a guy (probably MacCallister) who knows a guy (possibly recursively) who has access to one of those shops, and paid the nuyen to get it done.

He killed a dude who had those guns, and hey, they don't seem to be linked to any crimes. That guy must have gotten them from somewhere.

[Charybdis]

It might be good to explain it, but I wouldn't say it's really a problem with the character.

*shrugs* Neither would I. OP asked for any and all feedback, so that was mine 

Maybe our campaign focuses on resource details a little more than most, which puts a bias on my queries
Note: We have the same discussions about Vehicle modifications

Basically, for a PC to get this stuff IMHO they need either
- the skills and Facility themselves,
- a contact with them (not just a catch-all fixer), or
- a damn good background explanation

Any of the above is fine, and maybe the GM is more lenient than mine (also perfectly valid). Either way, it's a feedback discussion

[UmaroVI]

Ah, OK. This is for Shadowrun Missions, and there are simplified rules for contacts getting you stuff, so as to avoid taking up table time with that sort of thing.

[nojosecool]

Thanks guys,

I'll post my updated character soon.  I've got about 77 karma, so please don't worry about counting points or anything.

I will be posting a back story.  I know it isn't necessary for missions to explain where I got those guns, but it actually does kind of fit with what I had in mind.  When he was 13, he worked as a spider for Ares in Denver.  Lots of explanation for that, but working at Ares would give him access to the tech required for modifying his weapons.

[Charybdis]

When he was 13, he worked as a spider for Ares in Denver.  Lots of explanation for that, but working at Ares would give him access to the tech required for modifying his weapons.

Errr, if you're a 13 years old hacker who is 'owned' by ARES (as you're a minor and have no rights), would you really be:
A) Working for ARES? or
B) Experimented on by ARES?

[DWC]

If the internal smartlink is either bought as an accessory, or the weapon is purchased as the "Smart" variant, there's no need to spend a modification slot on it.

As for the modifications that require a Facility, maybe he slipped some cash to a guy in the gun cages at Fort Lewis that he used to serve with, and got the work done that way.  Maybe he stole it from someone else who made it for himself.  Either one is a viable explanation for why he has them.

If the weapon is listed with Smartlink as a standard option, no mod slots required
If the weapon uses an external smartlink, no mod slots required
If the weapon is bought, and requires an after-market internal smartlink, then it costs a mod slot.

As for the facility, there is a fluff description somewhere in that a Facility modification requires redesigning the weapon from the ground up (like making an Assault cannon Full-Auto with a large firing mod...)
A facility is more than a Gun cage at the local weaponsmith. It's a 100,000 nuyen room with machining tools, spare parts, ballistics chamber testing etc etc etc)

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it needs to be explained, as custom improvements on that scale are not common....

1) Internal smartgun systems are available as accessories, per the table in Sr4A, and the one in all three printings of Arsenal.  Accessories, by definition, do not require modification slots.  Arsenal is quite explicit about there being modifications that duplicate accessories.

2) Missions entirely circumvents the issue of required tools for modifications gained in game, and SR ignores them entirely when it comes to character generation, falling back on Availability and Rating instead.

[Onion Man]

If the internal smartlink is either bought as an accessory, or the weapon is purchased as the "Smart" variant, there's no need to spend a modification slot on it.

As for the modifications that require a Facility, maybe he slipped some cash to a guy in the gun cages at Fort Lewis that he used to serve with, and got the work done that way.  Maybe he stole it from someone else who made it for himself.  Either one is a viable explanation for why he has them.

If the weapon is listed with Smartlink as a standard option, no mod slots required
If the weapon uses an external smartlink, no mod slots required
If the weapon is bought, and requires an after-market internal smartlink, then it costs a mod slot.

As for the facility, there is a fluff description somewhere in that a Facility modification requires redesigning the weapon from the ground up (like making an Assault cannon Full-Auto with a large firing mod...)
A facility is more than a Gun cage at the local weaponsmith. It's a 100,000 nuyen room with machining tools, spare parts, ballistics chamber testing etc etc etc)

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it needs to be explained, as custom improvements on that scale are not common....

1) Internal smartgun systems are available as accessories, per the table in Sr4A, and the one in all three printings of Arsenal.  Accessories, by definition, do not require modification slots.  Arsenal is quite explicit about there being modifications that duplicate accessories.

2) Missions entirely circumvents the issue of required tools for modifications gained in game, and SR ignores them entirely when it comes to character generation, falling back on Availability and Rating instead.

+1

Beyond all that, asking someone to justify their totally legal character creation choice is too slippery of a slope.  Next we'll be demanding that people justify having a 5 in hacking or a high logic.

Too slippery.

[nojosecool]

Not so much worked for as accepted an indentured servitude contract in lieu of a law suit that would cost his wage slave parents more than they had. The law suit was indisputably my guys fault.

[Charybdis]

If the weapon is listed with Smartlink as a standard option, no mod slots required
If the weapon uses an external smartlink, no mod slots required
If the weapon is bought, and requires an after-market internal smartlink, then it costs a mod slot.

As for the facility, there is a fluff description somewhere in that a Facility modification requires redesigning the weapon from the ground up (like making an Assault cannon Full-Auto with a large firing mod...)
A facility is more than a Gun cage at the local weaponsmith. It's a 100,000 nuyen room with machining tools, spare parts, ballistics chamber testing etc etc etc)

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it needs to be explained, as custom improvements on that scale are not common....

1) Internal smartgun systems are available as accessories, per the table in Sr4A, and the one in all three printings of Arsenal.  Accessories, by definition, do not require modification slots.  Arsenal is quite explicit about there being modifications that duplicate accessories.

2) Missions entirely circumvents the issue of required tools for modifications gained in game, and SR ignores them entirely when it comes to character generation, falling back on Availability and Rating instead.

Point 1:
 - Smartgun System, Internal =  Modification = 1 mod slot, costs same as weapon
 - Smartgun System, External = Accessory = no slots, 400 nuyen, top/under barrel

Why would someone then try to say:
PC -  No, I'm getting an Internal Smartgun system as an Accessory that costs no slots
GM - But there's ALREADY a Smartgun accessory, which is External, and costs no slots.
PC - But I want an Internal one!
GM - Err, so pay for it.
PC  - I don't wanna....
GM - Tough.

I find it difficult to believe that
 A) For a weapon with Internal Smart gun as standard, there's no mod slot cost
 B) A weapon with Internal Smart gun added later, there's no slot cost (Just buy the accessory!)
 C) If you want to build a gun with Smartgun, you have a mod cost (?!)

Either B) or C) is conflicting. I choose B).  Others are free to disagree *shrugs*


On Point 2:
I am corrected
Missions does away with such things quite simply. We play a more detailed game (with Facility mods especially requiring partcular attention).
Note: Maxxed out attributes or Skills at 6/7 also require some explanation. That's just how we roll

[nojosecool]

The rules for Ruger Thunderbolt are special.

Arsenal Page 24:  "... comes equipped with either an internal smartgun system (+400Y) or a built-in underbarrel laser sight (+100Y).

The way I interpreted that is that it comes with it and takes up no slots, just like any other "off-the-shelf" modification.

In reply to the conversation, I agree that you cannot buy an internal smartgun system as an accessory.  I was never able to find a RAW ruling on this, but it seems pretty common-sense to assume that the internal smartgun system is counted as an "accessory" only if you are not using arsenal, where there are special rules for modifications (which is what this "accessory" actually is).  It's so that people can still use this very common weapon mod if they are only using SR4A.

[DWC]

If, for game balance reasons, you want to ignore what is explicitly stated in the rules about modifications that duplicate the effects of accessories, that's up to you.  None of that changes how the game mechanic actually works.

Read the section in Arsenal called "Modifications vs. Accessories", right under the "Weapon Mod Notes" heading, on page 148 of the 2nd and 3rd Printings.