[Critias]

@Critias
When you put it that way as far as the uncouth thing goes you do seem to make a valuable point.  However in this case the book needs to more clearly define what the junk it's talking about.  Running away scared because someone goes boo is not antisocial or sociopathic behavior.  You also make it sound like just because he doesn't handle social interaction well he's basically turned in to a mentally challenged person which seems....not right.  So to lose the quality would just mean that i have to just be a huge dick all the time and put people in harms way and NOT get any bonus points out of it(oversimplified of course).  If I had been able to find rulings for negative quality: sub psychotic sociopath I would have taken that.

One problem with Qualities is that they don't always do (rules-wise) what they say on the tin (fluff-wise).  Uncouth is worded in a way that makes it sound ideal for this character -- or for a great many characters, in fact -- but the actual rules for it really leave a character in a lurch.  Being "unaware" of every social skill is a real, real, crippler.  Your steely-eyed sniper can not default on any social skill, and it's those social skills that you use to defend from other social skills.  You need to carefully read the rules, not just the descriptions, of Qualities.

I'd look into the Incompetent flaws, instead, were I you.  Or, really, just role play your character;  I've run my share of sociopaths in the past that had plenty of social skills, they just didn't really get it on a deeper level.  One trait of antisocial personality disorder is that they can have a very charming veneer, and all KINDS of social ability (to blend in and get away with their crimes) -- so not caring one way or the other about the lives or feelings of other people isn't necessarily something you should get character points for.  Hell, in plenty a Shadowrun game, it can be a real benefit.

[TaintedAproximation]

yeah that's both fair and true. Mostly it's just upsetting because A) I feel stupid for having read it and not fully comprehending what it meant and B) it just seemed so perfect...It was like being handed 20 points to do what I was going to do anyways and having an excuse for doing it.  Still think it should be retitled or something though

Well since thats out of the picture then my new plan i guess would be to give him bad reputation, paranoia and a rank 5 enemy to make up for the points and then include some back story about how he burned some team he was working with or something like that.

[eshoup1]

Also - a sideline for when jobs are thin: New Boom Booms from the House Of Hellyeah Industries 
[/quote]

That is sooooooooooooo going into my new campaign. +1 for awesomeness

[baronspam]

Re: Critias's post above.

He is quite right.  The sociopath/anti-social personality doesn't lack social skills.  In fact, these people are often exteemly manipulative, charming, witty, and smart.  What they lack is remorse or a sense of morals. 

In general, Uncouth is one of the worst negative qualities in the game.  It goes way beyond "dumping charisma".  Basically, you can't handle normal social circumstances.  A character like this needs someone looking out for them or they are going to be in deep trouble.  The game designers may have been going for something else, but the mechanical result of Uncouth is far beyond being uncouth.  Its closer to autism.  These characters struggle to learn basic social nuances and in many cases can't handle social cirucmstances that the average person(even the average person without ranks in social skills) navigates without difficulty.  Short of a troll the rest of the group litteraly keeps on a leash and talks to in short, comforting phrases, its hard to image a functional shadowrunner who has this one.

[TaintedAproximation]

see now I just want to make an autistic runner. Like perhaps an electronics based autistic runner with a face type handler.  That would prove for some challenging game play right there.

[Critias]

I'm certain it was a mistake/oversight on the initial writers of the Qualities.  They meant for it to be someone that sucks at initiating social confrontations (IE, is unaware of social skills)...but an unintended consequence is that they're worthless at resisting them, instead.

*shrugs* 

Just slap together a bunch of Incompetents instead, and you can get a similar effect.  Someone who never quite fits in (Etiquette), who has no ability to compromise or acknowledge/account for the accomplishments of others (Negotiation), etc. 

[TaintedAproximation]

After doing some researching on various medical websites and expanding my range of knowledge I think what I want to do is just roleplay it out and make up the points in other areas.  I think playing a character that understands what he's doing wrong and just doesn't care will probably work out better for the build. 

[Critias]

Yeah, some of that's also the nature of Shadowrun, though.  I mean...it's a profession that's kind of tailor built for sociopaths, after all.  Psychopaths?  Nah, they're too eager to get too messy.  But sociopaths?  Hell, why not? 

[John Shull]

I was remembering a rule from Runners Companion that I thought was Mental Illness but may be Mental Handicap.  I have to get that book back from my sister and look it over again.  Sorry about the delay, hopefully get back to you tomorrow.

[Glyph]

If you took bad reputation, combat monster (which is actually a 10-point flaw), and vindictive, keeping the records on file flaw that you have, then you would be at the same number of flaw points.  Cyber-psychosis, from Augmentation, is a trap like Uncouth - you are penalized on all social rolls, and a critical glitch basically turns you into an NPC.