[Dysth]

Hi there

this here is my first post, please forgive eventual spelling and language errors, me being german and such.
First off, i played shadowrun a long time ago once and kinda want to play it again. So i am bisacally i am a beginner.
After reading up a bit on the 4e i got some pc ideas stuck in my head. One of them is that of a gorilla-shapeshifter.

He would have the metahuman form of a troll, also i would like him being an adept.
The thing is, i have actually no clue wether such an character would be a decent playable one, so i am asking you for some advice.
I have a pretty good idea for his character and morals, while being quite similar to that of the clichee troll, their base is not in portraits of the media and the usual prejudices, but rather in the nature of gorillas, answering on challenges with aggression but keeping generally to itself, territorial and prone to physical violence when threatened.
Of course he would have disadvantages when dealing with technology and more complicated modern concepts, alot of his actions and decisions based on animal intuition.

So what do you think, would that be an feasible character? i hope for some advice and suggestion.

[wylie]

wow
1st good luck with this, as it sounds interesting

bad part is you are on your own. A gorilla shapeshifter has never been stated out to my knowledge, cannon or fan. There are tiger, wolf, fox, seal, leapoard, and bear.

My only other suggestion is to pick up Runner's Companion, and get comfortable with the SURGE rules. With careful planning, you should be able to create a troll who looks like, moves like, and maybe to certain extent, act like a gorilla. Maybe have him rasied by gorillas, kinda like tarzan

good luck and let us know how this turns out

guten tag

[Dysth]

Actually i do have runner's companion. Purely about the stats i think i can use that of bear shape-shifters with slight modifications, lower body and strength, but a little higher intelligence. the ability of enhanced sense(smell) defenitly has to go, as gorillas do not have nearly as great a sense of smells like bears. but the overall mass and amount of muscle power is quite similar.

[Charybdis]

There's no reason it can't work, but as a new player to 4e you're playing a very challenging PC.

To start with, Shapeshifters are...different.
 - They get less skills that a normal person,
 - Bear (/Gorilla) shapeshifter plus troll will make it a very expensive racial choice
 - Half the time you're playing, you won't be able to use your full power (Can't run around in the city as a gorilla.... this attracts attention)
 - As a gorilla, all your clothing and armour will be no longer usable (no other shapeshifters can use the same armour in both forms, so it would be unfair to allow this option)

I'm guessing you want the Gorilla animal-type in order to have hand (and opposable thumbs ) during your shapeshifted form (and the idea of a Gorilla wielding a machine gun is very cool )  but seeing as that capability is denied to any other shapeshifter type, it's likely that a fair GM will impose some extra penalties on this option.

In short, I don't think it's a good character option (Feasible, yes. But not good).
And the tweaking required to Make it feasible, would need to be very carefully monitored in-game, which is IMHO not a good option for a player new to the SR4 ruleset.

Sorry dude

[Elizara Dane]

Charybdis makes a really good point in that an idea like this is difficult balance for a new player. Have you though about a compromise?

I made a troll Voodoo tradition mage that uses the Critter form spell to turn into a rhino then has beast spirits possess him for happy fun times. Kinda a one trick pony but made for a really fun roleplay experience and after a bit of karma I can initiate and gain the ability to coexist with my possessing spirit.

You could try the reviled mystic adept if you really wanted the adept aspect, though it might give you the opportunity to grab a more varied skillset.

[Charybdis]

Charybdis makes a really good point in that an idea like this is difficult balance for a new player. Have you though about a compromise?

I made a troll Voodoo tradition mage that uses the Critter form spell to turn into a rhino then has beast spirits possess him for happy fun times. Kinda a one trick pony but made for a really fun roleplay experience and after a bit of karma I can initiate and gain the ability to coexist with my possessing spirit.

You could try the reviled mystic adept if you really wanted the adept aspect, though it might give you the opportunity to grab a more varied skillset.

Reviled? I Love mystic adepts

[Elizara Dane]

I do too but my SR buddy and sometimes GM has always told me "Mystic adepts suck, dont make one because they suck" from day one in my SR career. It's been ingrained in my subconsious ever since.

I'm still working on finding a build that works and I can be satisfied with but for some reason I cant seem to get it right,

[Onion Man]

Whenever you encounter someone that will insist to no end that a particular character option sucks, you can rest assured that it's an indicator that they don't know what they're talking about.

[UmaroVI]

Mystic adepts are odd, and it's really easy to make a bad one, but there are not sucky mystic adepts.

The trick is not to be half mage half adept, but rather to be an adept who uses magic; ie, fight physically (not magically) and use magical spells on yourself to make you better at it. The obvious stuff like Increase Agility and Increase Reflexes, but also the less obvious stuff like Levitate, Improved Invisibility, and Mana Static.

[Charybdis]

Mystic adepts are odd, and it's really easy to make a bad one, but there are not sucky mystic adepts.

The trick is not to be half mage half adept, but rather to be an adept who uses magic; ie, fight physically (not magically) and use magical spells on yourself to make you better at it. The obvious stuff like Increase Agility and Increase Reflexes, but also the less obvious stuff like Levitate, Improved Invisibility, and Mana Static.

A bit off track to OP, but to clarify:
Mystic adepts work best when you choose a major and a minor out of Physad powers or Spellcasting/Summoning.

My favourite-ever PC was a Mystic Adept as a majority Spellcaster (Magic power 4 at Chargen, Physad Powers @2)
Note: (this was back in SR3, when Magic Attribute at 6 was a given at CharGen)
Other builds commonly favour the Majority Physad over Minor Spellcasting.

But seeing as the SR4 mechanics have pumped MA's up (ie Magic Power rating is only for magic-related Dice pools... Spell Force and Conjuring maximums are based on PC's Full magic rating), MA's are far better in SR4 than they have ever been.....

And as MA's get all Conjuring and Sorcery options, it's a crying shame not to use them.

Yes, I'm an excellent spellcaster with Multiple IP's, Enhanced senses and not a speck of Cyberware to do it. Fear me.

I love them  ... (possibly more than is healthy  )

Note: I have built an SR4 MA as another primary spellcaster/Conjurer.  With 3IP's and good charisma, he stays out of sight for 1 turn and suddenly 3 F5+ spirits are harrassing you in all sorts of unpleasant ways....

Also gives more simple actions to make command decisions....is pretty cool

[Dysth]

heh, a giant dual, machineguns dualwielding gorilla would be cool 
but in fact i don't want the animal form for that reason. i want a gorilla because it would be interesting to play, gorillas being very social animals (as all apes) and their behaviour is well understood. with a wolf-shapeshifter one would go with the basic pack mentality, but a gorilla could be played with more depth, for example one can actually use mimic in animal form.
sure, gorillas do have hands but i don't think their hands are suited for more complicated handling, like that of firearms. maybe he could use simple weapons effectifly, like some cind of club. if anyone of you played fallout 3 think of the supermutant behemoth at the gnr-plaza.

all in all, the advantages a gorilla-shapeshifter would have, being able to still wear clothing and/or armor (being in a humanoid form even as an animal) is weighed by some disadvantages, no enhanced senses that most shape-shifters posses for example. also, armor would be unfair and i don't believe that with changing to a gorilla it would fit properly, most armor is relativ thight on the body after all and a helmet would be impossible to keep.
although a giant gorilla would attract some attention i think in an urban sprawl more people would think of it more as a surge-victim.

interesting for me would be more the challange to play such a character in social aspects. just how he would react to some things, for example a lot of insults wouldn't provoke him because the interconnected concepts are beyond his understanding. other minor things on the other hand would enrage him, like someone taking some of his food. (going to a zoo and insulting a gorilla won't do much, but going into his cage and taking away his favourite food though would be a really bad idea  )

and as a last note in this post, i do not want to start out with this character, i will start with something more conventional. Its just, ever since reading runners companion i was thinking about this concept

[wylie]

i looked overRC to, thinking you could take either bear or tiger also

another thought is take the negative qualty Delusional, thinking he really is a gorilla.....
then just play with the SURGE rules to give him gorilla like qualities

good luck & let us know how it goes