[kirk]

The typical answer is "use the sprite". Which brings up a question (as in I suddenly realize I don't know the rule).

How does a sprite control a drone?

If it's commanding, it needs command and gunnery to shoot?
If it jumps in, does it even need command, or does its pilot and response take over for the built-in pilot?

See, I'm trying to figure out why machine sprites are the "only" good ones for machines. I know there's diagnostics but that's not a self-help. If it's command, courier sprites can have that as an optional CF at rating 3.

And if it's their own pilot-response the Fault's R+2 for response might be a useful drone commander for the hacker TM.

But I realized I don't know for sure so I'll ask.

[squee_nabob]

There is no explicit rule. I have most commonly seen “replace the drone’s pilot and autosofts with the sprite, but keep drone’s response”.

You can only have 1 non-registered sprite, so I also hesitate to make the answer “use lots of registered sprites just to take part in combats”.

[PittsburghRPGA]

Lots of things to consider.  Couple of questions based off of the newer posts.

Int 1 seems like a good way to be hit crossing the street while walking as it's like to Perception. Plus it's the base stats for a  lot of knowledge skills and I try to make those knowledge skills useful whenever possible.

Logic - Ok. Even though all the cool skills are linked to it, its not usually used in the tests that are gonna matter the most..

Willpower = Firewall.  Firewall + Stealth + Threadding = Not dectectable for a long time. Isn't that a good thing?

Resonance and Charisma, I agree get them to their high numbers, and work things out BP wise.

Empathy Software - I wasn't go to, but then found that no one made a primary face.  I've got the elven teenage technomancer, a human wheelman/rigger, a Troll escaped slave from Azzie blood pit fighting very concentraed in melee (Cha 1 and uncoouth on top of it), a human rat shaman minor pacifist with only stunbolt for combat, and a full on amnesiac former Sioux orc spy/NAN soldier who first wakes up the morning before the run (with no guns or skillsofts for his skillwires) with Human looking.  I'm still against emotitoys on principle though. But yeah, I'm gonna suggest squeezing in the Empathy Software so that she's also primary face in addition to primary matrix overwatch.

So far, in spite of access to all the books, Armored Jacket or Long Coat seems to be the groups average B/I armor (not to be confused with the program/cf of the same name).  I'll have to start having NPC's nudge them towards the fun layering stuff.  Especially useful in this will be the amnesiac's landlord, who is a trigger happy gun nut, former USMC/UCASMC, vintage gun collector and formerly a shadowrunner who went by Cruffler.

Yes, some of those pre-gen mods are not suitable for this group. I don't see anyone but the Troll being happy with Wetwork Pure and Simple, for example (and the Rat Shaman actively against the run entirely).  I'm hoping that Tunnel Vision will give the TM the willies and make her (and or the wheelman) buy a retransmitter drone (or two). Maybe even provide the impetuous for the wheelman to start giving her driving lessons so she can buy off the incompetent with Karma and start picking up the drone stuff.   Some of the runs, I can simply add more matrix stuff for them to do. I'm also not limited to 4 hour con slots either, so adding in stuff is no problemo if it makes a run go two nights.

I will be sure to point out the "trick" of micro-retrans drones and their combat uses to both the TM and Wheelman. It's not a subtle nudge, but they're new to the game, so there we go.  And when they meet the Aurora Angels, they'll start the not so subtle hints that she should start learning how to do the rigging stuff.

Thanks,

Eric

[kirk]

About the 'bunch of registered sprites', I agree, but I want to point out a 'trick'.

Buy a smartgun, modify it with pilot so it's a defacto drone, then let your sprite run it.

[UmaroVI]

Firewall is for defense, but your real defense as a technomancer is

(a) Only other technos can hack your bionode. Technos are VERY rare and a 6 versus 3 firewall won't stop them anyways.

(b) Have some registered sprites chilling in your bionode to prevent (a).

Firewall does not help you remain unnoticed as you hack other people. You use Hacking+Stealth for that when you are in a node, and just Stealth as a threshold when hacking in. Firewall is used by the node to detect you hacking in.

[squee_nabob]

Firewall doesn’t help your stealth. Is that a house rule?

Just thread Empathy Software, it’s not like she can’t soak the fade.

If you want her to ever be good at rigging, start with Command 6. It is not fair to the player to have her pay much more in game with karma for a build flaw.

[kirk]

aha, I think I found it. re sprite command when jumping in, treat sprite as rigger. At that point this rule comes into play:

A drone controlled in this manner acts on the rigger’s Initiative—
the rigger and the drone are treated as a single unit. Any tests are
made using the rigger’s skills and the drone’s attributes (substituting
Response for Agility and Reaction and Sensor for Intuition).

Hot sim benefits the rigger as much as the hacker. All actions by
a rigger who has jumped into a drone (or other device) are considered
Matrix actions, and receive the benefit of the +2 bonus due to hot sim
VR use.

So it's the sprite's pilot, matrix initiative, and IPs, and the drone's response.

At that point if I were our hacker TM I'd be tempted to use a Sleuth. R for pilot just like all the sprites, Rx3 for initiative, 3 IPs, and for when somebody tries to spoof (if you can spoof a sprite due to its connection with the TM) it's got a firewall of R+2.

It's still not the large dice pool the rigger TM can get but it begins to be viable.

[PittsburghRPGA]

Ok, then the whole a TM is a biological node thing doesn't apply to stealth tests.  I'll have to go over those rules in UW again then.  I'll have another draft of the Teenage Elven Techno Mancer up later (as I hum that to the TMNT theme song).

Thanks,

Eric

[UmaroVI]

If rigging is going to be a "pick this up eventually" thing, it would probably make more sense to start with Command 6, but no rigging skills, and buy the skills later (or Biowire them).

[squee_nabob]

So sprites don’t want to jump in. That makes their skills Response/Sensors + A skill they can’t get: infiltrate, pilot ground vehicles, gunnery, perception, etc. Remember you use the drone’s response which is going to be at most 8, and unlikely to be > 5.

Where does it say you treat sprites as riggers when jumping in, or that sprites can jump in at all? I honestly am not sure how sprites rig so please direct me to any rules.

The TM bionode unhackability doesn’t apply to stealth tests normally. It just means that mundane hackers/AI/anyone not using emergence can’t locate your bionode to log on/hack in. Firewall plays no part in your stealth check RAW. Are you using housefules?

Also, I agree with UmaroVI, get Command 6 now, and biowires the skills later.

[PittsburghRPGA]

Version 2

Street Name: w3Bz
Elf female Age 17
Height 6'2" Weight 117
Lift/Carry: 4 (15 kg/10 kg)
Unspent Nuyen: 70

==BP Summary==
Metatype Elf  30
Attributes 140
Special 85
Pos.Qual. 10
Neg. Qual. -35
Nuyen 5
Skill Groups 60
Active Skills 62
Complex Forms 43

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 2 (1)
REA: 2 (1)
STR: 1
CHA: 7
INT: 3
LOG: 4
WIL: 3
EDG: 3
RES: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   6
Initiative:                5 (4)
IP:                        1
Matrix Initiative:         7
Matrix IP:                 3
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         10

== Active Skills ==
Compiling : 4
Computer : 3  (Elec. Group)
Con  : 2 (Influence Group)
Data Search : 3  (Elec. Group)
Disguise : 1 (Stealth Group)
Electronic Warfare : 1
Etiquette  : 2 (Influence Group)
Hacking : 5
Hardware  : 3   (Elec. Group)
Infiltration : 1 (Stealth Group)
Leadership : 2 (Influence Group)
Negotiation : 2 (Influence Group)
Palming : 1 (Stealth Group)
Pistols : 1
Registering : 4 [Crack Sprite]
Shadowing : 1 (Stealth Group)
Software : 3  (Elec. Group)

== Knowledge Skills ==
Area Knowledge: Denver     : 2
Data Havens : 2 [N. America]
English  : N
French : 2
Gaming : 2 [Grand Larceny]
Gangs : 2
Security Design : 2 [Matrix]
Sioux : 2
Underworld : 2 [Matrix Crime]

== Qualities ==
Incompetent (Pilot Ground Craft)
Media Junkie (Moderate)
Paragon (The Black Hat)
Reality Impaired
SINner (Standard) (Penelope Jennifer Cohen)
Technomancer
Wanted (if it becomes known she's a technomancer)

== Complex Forms ==
Analyze Rating: 6
Command Rating: 6
Disarm Rating: 6
Empathy Software Rating: 6
Exploit Rating: 6 (Mute)
Spoof Rating: 6
Stealth Rating: 6

== Armor ==
Form-Fitting Shirt        3/0
Leather Jacket            2/2
Lined Coat                6/4

== Weapons ==
Browning Ultra-Power
   +Laser Sight
   DV: 5P   AP: -1   RC: 0
Unarmed Attack
   DV: 1S   AP: -   RC: 0
Yamaha Pulsar
   DV: 6S(e)   AP: -half   RC: 0

== Commlink ==
CMT Clip (1, 2, 1, 3)
   +Redcap Nix
   +Suite: Basic User [Analyze 2, Browse 2, Command 1, Edit 2]
Living Persona (3 (4), 4, 3, 3)
   +Living Persona
   +Biofeedback Filter

== Gear ==
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Heavy Pistols) x30
Ammo: Taser Dart (Tasers) x40
AR Gloves
AR Wristboard
Biomonitor
Butt Pack
Fake SIN (Jacksy Lynn) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Concealed Carry Permit) Rating 4
Glasses Rating 3
   +Image Link
   +Flare Compensation
   +Thermographic
Mapsoft (Denver Metropolitan) Rating 6
Medkit Rating 6
Metal Restraints
Nanopaste Trodes
Silver Body Glitter
Spectrum Permanent Polish x2
Subvocal Microphone
Tag Eraser
VR Game (Grand Larceny MMO)

== Vehicles ==
Honda Spirit (Subcompact)
   +Pilot Program Rating 3
   +Vehicle Sensor

== Background ==
Teen aged girl making her way in the big bad world. Using gear to pretend to be a decker (even from the group for now).

Lives in a loft above her mother's garage. Still in high school, 7:30am to 3:30pm Monday - Fridays, PCC sector.

Fake ID Jacksy Lynn is listed as 21.


== Concept ==
Technomancer Hacker/secondary face.

== Notes ==
Wanted: There is currently a 40,000 nuyen bounty on live Technomancers at several corporations.
Paragon - The Black Hat - +1 die for Cracking Sprites (since as a Networker, she doesn't have fault sprites)
Day Job (High School) 0 BP, 20 hours per week, no pay, counts as having instructor for all academic skills until graduation. Mom gets notified if you "cut school" which might result in getting grounded.

[squee_nabob]

Get hacking 6, drop pistols 1.

Get full form fitting body armor, supplement with Personal Protection Piecemeal (PPP) and Vasion Island Steampunk.

Mod the Pistol for Custom Look so it is at least scary. Right now the pulsar is just better in all ways. Plus if you drop the pistol, you don’t need a fake license.

Otherwise looks fine. 

[kirk]

So sprites don’t want to jump in. That makes their skills Response/Sensors + A skill they can’t get: infiltrate, pilot ground vehicles, gunnery, perception, etc. Remember you use the drone’s response which is going to be at most 8, and unlikely to be > 5.

Where does it say you treat sprites as riggers when jumping in, or that sprites can jump in at all? I honestly am not sure how sprites rig so please direct me to any rules.

The TM bionode unhackability doesn’t apply to stealth tests normally. It just means that mundane hackers/AI/anyone not using emergence can’t locate your bionode to log on/hack in. Firewall plays no part in your stealth check RAW. Are you using housefules?

Also, I agree with UmaroVI, get Command 6 now, and biowires the skills later.

Thank you for making me dig. (No, that is not sarcasm).  Both SR4A and UN are unclear on whether a sprite can jump into a drone and I'd almost given up. Then I had an inspiration while reviewing the character I'm building.  Runner's Companion, Advanced Lifestyles, Negative Qualities, Sprite Magnet. (p164):

Your home attracts sprites that seem to enjoy inhabiting your
CHN, drones, and wireless systems. Roll a die. On a hit, a sprite
has inhabited a device or node in your home (such as your CHN
or a drone) and refuses to allow you access for a period to be determined
by the gamemaster.

The inference is that sprites can jump into (inhabit) devices, of which drones are a subclass.

A counterargument that is just as inferential comes in unwired, AIs, Positive Qualities. One of those qualities is Drone Pilot (p 169) which says:

An AI with this quality likely evolved from a drone Pilot
program and retained its abilities. The AI may “jump into” drones
and control them like a rigger, using their rating in place of Pilot.

This inference here is that other AI's, those without that quality, cannot jump into drones.

Bottom line, I believe we have a rules situation where unless and until an Official Voice makes a decision the GM must decide which truly applies for their table. (I really suggest Bull be asked for a ruling for missions, regardless.)

I'm going to continue in a while on what the sprite should use for its dice pool. I'm conflicted, and want to double-check some rules first.

[kirk]

fixing error.

A counterargument that is just as inferential ALSO comes in unwired Runner's Companion, AIs, Positive Qualities.

[kirk]

Part two.

RAW, only two of the three methods of controlling a drone are available to a sprite. Rules as inferred (see previous) the sprite can use its own version of jumping in as well.

1) Issue commands. The sprite gives instructions then lets the drone's pilot do its job.  Generally not useful other than the simple power of delegation -- if it's giving orders there, you're free to be giving orders here. And sprites are (probably) better at contingencies.

2) Remote Control. Since your sprites aren't free and therefore can't thread, this sucks. An attack is Command + Gunnery. A sprite doesn't have gunnery, so it's command + 0 -- unless it's a machine sprite that was compiled with a Gunnery autosoft

3) If and only if the sprite can do its version of jumping in does the idea become worthwhile. A sprite isn't metahuman so it wouldn't use metahuman skills when in direct control. Instead, it would be in control. There is no clear rules reason for this. I'm inferring from existing rules and similar applications (riggers).

In this case, my interpretation is that the sprite provides the 'software' and the drone the 'hardware'. Thus the sprite provides Pilot and Response while the drone provides Body, Armor, and Sensors. The question in my mind is what about cases where the drone's regular pilot can bring the 'second half' of a 'software' duo -- Targeting, Defense, Covert Ops, Maneuver, and Clearsight. Is it shut down, or just pushed into the back seat?

Bottom line, it's GM call unless or until the Powers That Be make an official declaration. There are no clear rules, but plenty that can persuade either way.

I'm a lenient sorta GM, so I'd let the sprite use them. Just as an FYI.