[squee_nabob]

It is very clearly the drone's response, see the bit you quoted about the drone's attributes. Also, the "gunnery autosoft" is called targeting, and it is only useable while acting autonomously, that is why i think a sprite replaces the drone's base pilot, and uses the autonomous rules.

[kirk]

But what about (and sorry, thought I'd already included):

In game terms, sprites are very similar to agents (p. 234). Each sprite has a rating that
is equivalent to the Pilot rating of an agent and determines its other Matrix attributes. A
sprite’s Matrix attributes are independent of the attributes of any node in which it is running;
it runs on other, inexplicable resources.

(SR4A - 240)

[squee_nabob]

The sprites attributes don't conform to the drones, but you use the drone response, the same as if you were using a comlink to jump in. You use the drone's response, not your comlinks. If you jump in as a TM, you use the drone's response not your bionode. Basically you always use drone response. do you need me to cite that?

A drone controlled in this manner acts on the rigger’s Initiative—
the rigger and the drone are treated as a single unit. Any tests are
made using the rigger’s skills and the drone’s attributes (substituting
Response for Agility and Reaction and Sensor for Intuition).

[kirk]

Basically you always use drone response. do you need me to cite that?

No. No, I found it - realized what you meant by the bit I quoted about drone attributes, and found it.

I'm sticking by the opinion that the sprite using the system's autosofts isn't RAW. I agree it's how it should be, and with that minor change just mentioned I'm in much closer agreement, but there's reason to object just as there is reason to accept. (see, as noted, the intrusive AI for example.)

The possible point of disagreement is an assumption on my part, that you're saying only the machine spirit can use the drone's autosofts because it gets to use autosofts. If - and please note the if - that's true, my objection is because the autosoft has to be part of the spirit's compilation.

Disregard if I'm misunderstanding your argument, of course.

[squee_nabob]

First off, I said that I have no idea how Machine Sprites are supposed to Rig RAW as it is very unclear.

Second: Machine Sprites cannot use mundane autosofts, only the ones they have as complex forms. I think we actually agree on that.

My argument was that sprites should be replacing the pliot of the drone with their own pilot rating and the drone's autosofts with their own, then using "autonomous command" because it has the best dice pool.

[kirk]

On the first, my apologies. I was remembering your comments about missions being played by RAW, and that machine sprites were so much better. OTOH, you spoke early in the thread of how sprites have muddled rules (my paraphrase) and have made comments elsewhere about how parts of matrix, especially TM rules, are less than clear. excuse me, please, for misconstruing your position. I can only say I was tired and had spent far too many hours trying to piece out a pattern to the Matrix.

re autosofts, yay, I did remember that correctly. The comment was a just in case.

And I agree with your argument. Which means we can build from solid foundation.

The reason I went in this whole direction was because I made an assumption of what you meant. This time I'll ask you to explain.

What did you mean by the "bad sprites" comment:

It is lamentable that the cool streams have bad sprites, and if Networkers is unchangeable that we’ll go with that.

??

[squee_nabob]

What I meant was that the streams which have interesting fluff (Like Networkers) have poor sprite selection. Some sprites are better than other sprites because of various factors. A brief list of which sprites are good (in alphabetical order, not in goodness):


Good

Code,
Crack
Machine,
Sleuth
ONE OF: Fault, Tank, Paladin (you need a fight sprite but that's it)

Bad
Courier
Data
Tutor


The goal is to get as many good sprites as you can. I did not realize it was unclear.

[kirk]

Ah.

I massively disagree about Tutor being bad. CF any technical, vehicle, or knowledge skillsoft at time of build. Can then instruct (virtual instructor program). Can use Proficiency to act as a user skillsoft, letting the user test against the skill at half the sprite's rating. Due to tutor nature only complex action or extended tests apply -- if it needs to be free or simple you're out of luck. Still, look at the list.

Technical: Armorer, Artisan, Chemistry, Cybercombat, CyberTechnology, Data Search, Demolitions, Electronic Warfare, First Aid, Forgery, Hacking, Hardware, Locksmith, Medicine, Mechanic (Aeronautical, Automotive, Industrial, Nautical), Software.

Vehicle: Gunnery, Pilot (any).

Note that because you can "lend" your sprites you can use this to instruct team-members, or give another team member a needed skill to complete the mission. Or (per earlier discussion) add the optional Command, give it the CF Gunnery, and let it run Remote Command your drone in a firefight.

[UmaroVI]

Tutor sprites aren't terrible like courier and data sprites; it's more that the stuff they are good at, Machine and Code sprites are generally better at the same type stuff. Now, if I could get, say, Machine, Code, Sleuth, Paladin first, then I'd probably take Tutor, sure. Or if I had a free echo to Sprite Link one.

[kirk]

UmaroVI, there are things the tutor can do neither Machine nor Code can do.  Lockpick? Forgery? Any knowsoft? And while my team undoubtedly has someone who can do demolitions, that team member may not be where I am. Its flexibility means it has to be as an unregistered sprite, but I can live with it.

With Tutor I can repair, build, and modify anything given tools and supplies. I can spin up a tutor to drive (with command) ANYTHING, and do it better than I can, while I concentrate on other things. I'm still parsing how it will work with medkits/autodocs. If I can use the its first aid or medicine rating WITH the kit/doc then compiling and registering one becomes a seriously good idea. Even without, giving me - or another player - a first aid/medicine skillsoft can be extremely useful.

There are never enough build points or karma for all the skills I want/need.

[squee_nabob]

Lockpick – I have never seen a key lock in SRM. The only locks I have seen are maglocks, which Lockpick does not work on. If I did see one, I would use an autopicker + an agile street sam, or just use a gun/explosive/spirit. Locked doors are a solved problem.


Forgery – Never had to use this in SRM, perhaps if I played a home campaign I would. I usually just hack the central system and add a file/account directly rather than messing around with papers. Just say you forgot them but you are in the system. Ta-da.

Knowsofts – These can be useful. I see decreased usefulness because there is a logic mystic adept at my table who throws 13+dice defaulting on any logic skill. I could use Tutor sprite to give him more dice, but that is why this is the best of the worst (a semi-useful ability). Just because no other sprite can duplicate it, doesn’t mean it is good.

Driving – Overthreaded command gives me 15 dice to drive anything. To match that a sprite would need to be rating 8. Machine sprites can also drive anything though, and so this is not unique.

First Aid – If you can command a medkit (which I have seen done), overthreading your command is better than a sprite. Again, a highly specialized use, as opposed to Machine or Code which is +2 dice to everything you do.

I have found biowires fixes all the skills I want/need. I could pick up perception, some driving skills, and negotiate with biowires, but honestly I am at the dice pool cap anyway so I don’t particularly care that much.

It’s not that Tutor is as bad as Courier and Data, but it is not as good as say Machine and Code which are the best of the best.

[Neurosis]

cut Agility to 2 (only affect Infiltration)
Lose Etiquette and Pistols

Get hacking 6, drop pistols 1.

We already established that this character is not going to be contributing to meat combat by drone rigging. Why are we therefore going to nerf her ability to actually shoot things with a gun? Just curious about the logic here. I mean I get that the character is not going to be *good* at combat either way, but we could at least give her *something* to do.

[squee_nabob]

At 3 Agility and 1 Pistols, she would roll at most 10 dice for shooting people with a smartlinked pistol while in a Rating 4 tacnet. Removing Agility and Pistols drops that to 7 dice under the same conditions. Without the tacnet, it is 6 and 3. With only one IP, and a poor dice pool (10 is not very good, and 6 is unlikely to hit), her contribution will mostly be giving people a -1 penalty to their Reaction test. OTOH if she got an automatic and wide bursted, she could be giving -3 or -5 to hit, and have a reasonable chance of connecting. An Ares Alpha with Gas Vents 3 is 5RC to start (you can get higher using Personalized Grip, a shockpad, or a Gyrostabalizer).

Basically agility 3 and Pistols 1, and 1 IP is too low to be effective as a gunwoman, so she might as well focus on being a better TM.

[FastJack]

At 3 Agility and 1 Pistols, she would roll at most 10 dice for shooting people with a smartlinked pistol while in a Rating 4 tacnet. Removing Agility and Pistols drops that to 7 dice under the same conditions. Without the tacnet, it is 6 and 3. With only one IP, and a poor dice pool (10 is not very good, and 6 is unlikely to hit), her contribution will mostly be giving people a -1 penalty to their Reaction test. OTOH if she got an automatic and wide bursted, she could be giving -3 or -5 to hit, and have a reasonable chance of connecting. An Ares Alpha with Gas Vents 3 is 5RC to start (you can get higher using Personalized Grip, a shockpad, or a Gyrostabalizer).

Basically agility 3 and Pistols 1, and 1 IP is too low to be effective as a gunwoman, so she might as well focus on being a better TM.

Two Words:

Suppression Fire

[squee_nabob]

... Is another thing pistols can't do?