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Double crossing the players

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The Big Peat

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« on: <08-12-11/1527:04> »
I am about to undergo one of the great initiations of any SR GM, in which my poor helpless PCs turn up to the meet and instead of gold, are given lead...

I am turning to you fine gentlemen (and ladies, if any are present) to help me. Not only to suggest ideas, but to run my own current ideas past and check that they're sound.

The current scenario - over the past two adventures, they have become aware of the presence of a powerful and well-resourced Blood Mage and that they are treading on his toes slightly. They will get a bit more info on stirrings of a Blood Mage in the beginning of the next session before moving onto a good old fashioned 'break into big corporate base and extract the researcher' bash. Yes, I am enjoying hitting up the tropes with this session.

I will be doing my utmost to persuade the players that someone like Ares is behind the run. This is because actually the Big A are, and the Johnson is doing some favours for a friend by burning a team that's annoying him while getting what he wants. There's been enough Blood Magic flying around that I think my players might be slightly suspicious if I put the Big A out there. Win-win situation to him, worth the risks and the damage to his rep. He will be fairly free with his promises, nuyen and intel in getting the PCs do to the job, as after all they're not going to be around to collect or blab about what they know (if they do, he's probably got bigger worries than them anyway).

Anyway, the run will happen, they'll have a fun time busting through security and coming under fire from a bunch of Lone Star veterans, grab the guy and his family, get in the van, return the rendevous...

And here my brain is getting slightly unwired. I'm planning on having some crack Big A troops there to do the dirty work; the idea is this double cross ends with them fighting their way clear and running the hell away. I'm thinking of giving them little hints that things might not be as they would wish on the way in, but I'm not sure what - maybe military hardware parked under tarps in the yard.

I'm also planning on having a number of teams waiting on response to try cutting them off they escape. Nothing too outrageous, but I want this to be more tense than just "walk in, run out, drive faster than them and sacrifice a couple of drones to slow them down"

I think that covers my current plans. What I could use ideas on are -

Intel the Johnson might reasonably have on the company they're running against (I'm going with a single/double A, not a major player)
Ways to tip them off that things mightn't be all that they hoped without spelling it out or spooking them (preferably when they're too late to pull out)
The ambush itself - some good ways to hurt the players and make it clear they're outclassed without just wiping the floor in them in particular.


And other tidbits about the noble art of setting up your players and then betraying them while they glare at you which you consider of worth.

Ryo

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« Reply #1 on: <08-12-11/1637:25> »
I'm not sure I fully understand the scenario. Let's see if I can break this down.

1: Players are aware they have pissed off a Blood Mage.
2: Players move on to a run they think is unrelated, but it's actually the Blood Mage planning to double cross them?
3: You're using Ares as a red herring, and it's actually the Blood Mage all along?

That doesn't sound right, but that's what I gathered from your post. So, why is their Johnson betraying them? What guy and his family are they extracting? How exactly is the Blood Mage involved?

The Big Peat

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« Reply #2 on: <08-12-11/1644:23> »
1. Yes
2. The Blood Mage has indicated to a friend he is getting bored of them. The Johnson, the Blood Mage's friend, is planning to double cross them, to solve that issue.
3. More or less.

The Johnson is betraying them at the Blood Mage's bequest. He is his sock pocket.
The guy is a legit extraction that the Big A want done. The Johnson's trying to get two birds with one stone.
The Blood Mage's involvement is very background. He's controlling the Johnson,a nd also ensuring I can't let slip its the Big A to my players.

Does this clarify things?

Ryo

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« Reply #3 on: <08-12-11/1651:31> »
Aha. So basically, the Johnson wants them to take something from the Big A, then once they've got it, he tips off Ares and basically brings the full hammer down on the group? Pretty nasty.

In that case, I'd make whatever they're extracting something less tangible than a man and his family, like paydata that can be wirelessly transferred to the Johnson before he brings the pain.

Goodwin

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« Reply #4 on: <08-12-11/1750:28> »
Howdy,

I like the idea of using the extraction mission for a guy and his family.  I think one way you can hint that things may not go all that well is the mark may ask that his family be dropped off first.  The Johnson doesn't mention anything about a family, but the scientist they've nabbed insisted they help snag his family from corporate claws too.  He just wants them dropped off anywhere before they drop him off, so his family isn't in any potential danger.  This also gives the Runners a hostage so that the Ares hit squad can't just fire a missile or something at their retreating car because they still actually need that scientist back.  It creates a sort of hostage situation and makes it so the Runners have at least one card still in their deck to get tha hell out.

Ways to make things seem out of the ordinary.  I like the idea of having some military hardware inside the yard; especially if its not a military type Corp they are going into.  Maybe on their drive up to the drop point, they may be able to notice a drone or spirit high in the sky, sort of tailing them for a second then flying away.  It may also be neat to make the scientist a bit of a talker.  "So...how much are they paying you to get me out?  Really?  That much?  Wow.  That sounds like you'd be set for awhile.  I remember the last time I got yanked like this, they were good guys but wow did they get it.  Hard to spend that much nuyen when you're dead, eh? Am I right?" *Harmless chuckle and pat on the back*  Or have him request a window seat and after the heat from the Corp has died down, make him muttering to himself "Well, that car's kind of familiar?"  As the team is tailed a short ways.

Hope that helps a little!,
Goodwin

Ryo

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« Reply #5 on: <08-12-11/1819:53> »
Well, here's an idea. The Johnson has ties with a competing Corp. The guy he wants the runners to pull out is the leading scientist on some project that his Corporate ties would rather their competition does not release to market. So if he gets the guy, cool. But as long as he is no longer working for the competition, the Johnson still wins. In other words; he doesn't give a crap if the mark lives or dies, just so long as he's no longer working for the competition. That makes the double-cross a case of killing three birds with one stone. Almost regardless of outcome, he comes out ahead.

As for what gets sicked on the players, I've always liked playing up new prototypes that haven't fully been tested yet. It leaves the players completely in the dark on just how good this thing they're up against is, while simultaneously giving you free reign over what it can do to make them soil themselves. It also gives you the option of backtracking if you miscalculate and start slaughtering the group more than you intended. As a prototype, it still has bugs that need working out. Maybe a weapon overheats or the targeting software glitches, causing it to start missing more shots.

Maybe some kind of Combat Drone, like an unmanned Tank or something that can roll out and take some potshots at their vehicle with a Main Gun while they're trying to flee.

Fallen

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« Reply #6 on: <08-12-11/1826:14> »
Hey there,

Seems like you have a pretty solid idea on how you plan on setting up the PCs.  First, the general premise of the Run seems to be rather run-of-the-mill and so it's feasible that your players won't see the double-cross coming.  Simple extraction, big nuyen, few problems foreseen.  A good premise.

The first thing I would, were I you, start thinking about is pertaining to what sort of assets this Blood Mage has: how far does his influence reach, how many other "puppets" (like the Johnson you mention) does he have set up.  Writing a list and working through the logistics of that character's influence might very well give you more material for you to work with -- The more material you can think up, the more likely the Blood Mage will be able to spread his influence around matters concerning the Shadowrunners' group.

Now, about your Johnson...

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Intel the Johnson might reasonably have on the company they're running against (I'm going with a single/double A, not a major player)

It is very likely the Johnson has a network of contacts with whom he operates either within the company whose interests he represents or without.  A good place to start in relation as to how far-reaching his personal "web" of influence spreads would be to list those contacts and elaborate on their relationship with the Johnson.  Doing this, you can then likely begin penning down what sort of information the Johnson has access to.

Remembering that many Corporations also own and work behind several subsidiaries, you could make the target of the Run a company of your choosing's front.  That way, the Johnson's intel might relate to that front without necessarily give any information on the Corporation behind it -- maybe he simply doesn't know it's a subsidiary of a bigger company behind the scenes, or maybe he has an idea of it but doesn't have access to the particulars, etc.

Info could be, for example, the type of products and services the company provides, the whereabouts of the company compound they will have to infiltrate, a general idea of the sort of security measures the Runners might feasibly encounter.  Injecting a bit of misinformation at this point would work well to set up the intended double-cross.  Say, the Johnson says that the company sometimes hires Knight Errant security as backup when, in truth (the Runners can learn this by doing some legwork), it's more to do with the Lone Star.

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Ways to tip them off that things mightn't be all that they hoped without spelling it out or spooking them (preferably when they're too late to pull out)


Working the angle I suggest above might be a way to tip them off, should the Runners' legwork find some discrepancies with what  information the Johnson revealed.  The key here is to try and be subtle, as anything too glaring should immediately rouse suspicion.  You want to avoid that.  Just think of minor things that may not be entirely true that the Runners can cross-check upon and verify.

Word on the Street might also speak about something to do with the Johnson's-Real-Name (info the Runners probably don't have as Johnsons typically don't give their names) being involved in some ugly business (his association with the Blood Mage) beyond the bounds of the company he represents.  Again, this Street Rumor-mill might not be entirely accurate, but may give insight without actually spoiling anything.

If you prefer the Runners learn these things while effectively "inside" the Run, you could leave some files or data around that has been hastily hidden.  Emails between the Johnson and the Blood Mage (or any similar electronic evidence of communication).  Using nicknames to hide their identities behind would be helpful in allowing the Runners to piece some things together without actually getting the entirety of the information.  The best way to work on revealing a plot or intrigue to the players is, in my experience, making it piecemeal and like a puzzle they need to solve.

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And other tidbits about the noble art of setting up your players and then betraying them while they glare at you which you consider of worth.

Keep them informed on what's going on through their legwork and data finds, but inject some misinformation or oblique interpretations in whatever data they get their hands on that may relate to what's going on behind the scenes.  Another good way is for them to become friendly with a contact who's a contact of a contact working for Whoever-Will-Set-Them-Up.  The logic behind using double-agents is that whoever has interests in double-crossing someone usually will want to stay informed about their dealings and whatever they may be up to.

Just some ideas for you to consider (if you hadn't already).
"Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #7 on: <08-12-11/2040:15> »
I like the idea of the target not needed to get out alive. This way if things are going badly for the group or you want to jolt them you can have the mark become a bullseye.
Information that could send up a red flag inside the adventure is that when they grab the mark he says something about how glad he is that say NeoNet finally got someone to get him when the team was told that Johnson was from Ares. This also works as a red herring as it really is the Big A that is behind it.
Another thing is as they are arriving at the meet have them make a audio perception check and if they get 3 successes then they hear Mr. J say goodbye to the blood mage by name or alias. (a common first name would work best since it could then be explained as a coincidence.)

Hope these ideas help
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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #8 on: <08-12-11/2123:26> »
Word of warning about extractions:  Sometimes your players will choose to simply knock the guy unconscious (through physical violence, drugs, or magic) in order to transport him more easily.  If you have family ties to worry about, then make sure the target has something on him to inform the players about the family, a photo of said family, a stuffed doll, etc..

Trust me, having a backup plan for this sort of thing may be the best thing you could do for the game.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

The Big Peat

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« Reply #9 on: <08-13-11/1439:57> »
Thankyou all for your help so far. To clarify and respond to a few points...

That the target (presuming I go through with live extraction) has a family and that they are meant to come will be put in the mission objectives from the get-go. I think I will have them drop off the rest of the family first. It will keep things far less messy once it kicks off. I don't really need a family there, it just feels more real that the guy's going to have it written in.

I like the idea of making the target expendable. At the moment, their ability to claw back a win would consist of getting the target away with them, and then selling him on (or even back to where they nicked him from). Becomes a lot harder when they're willing to put bullets through him, and should hopefully force them to choose between their greed and their survival.

I'm not going to have him double-cross them in terms of details for the run (although he might forget a few details that would drive the price up). He does still want them to get the guy out first - having them shot up in another corp's area does not fit his plans

My latest plan says that the guy has been doing some research for the Johnson/Blood Mage. This a) means I get to slip them some prime info on their target b) Might hopefully set a few alarm bells ringing should they get a look at the data/talk to him. The tail's a good/obvious idea... although possibly not, as they'll drive around until they lose it most like. Might just let them lose it very easily (series of short-tails, rather than one long-one)

The prototype one is interesting. Might well go with that.

 

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