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game too easy

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Stalin00

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« on: <08-21-11/1040:11> »
hey guys, new to the forums. 

                but i been runnign a 4ed game for a while now (10 sessions or so) and i find my group is VERY throw with there legwork.

they seem to be able to think around most forseen obsticles.  The few they have to deal with on the fly they dispatch quicky. So i was looking for a

lil advice on makeing the game more chalanging but not totally discredit there legwork.   
 
                                                                                                  THANKS, phil (stalin00)

Reaver

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« Reply #1 on: <08-21-11/1137:58> »
Oh, there are SO many things you can do to throw a curve ball into your runner's game plan! I find that by giving the NPCs a little "color" can do that. For example: if they need to steal a passcode from a guy named Ted, well Ted just happens to be a huge combat biker fan (so guess where he is Tuesday nights!)

Or, you can always mix in a little local hospitality (ie: a gang crew stumbles across them and is up to no good). Don't forget the cops too!! Your players go around shooting off there guns in the wrong part of town, they could attract the attention of the cops by way of drone survailance leading to a confortation with an assault team! (depending on their ordinance)

In short, there are 100s of ways to mess with your players to turn up the difficulty, the real trick is to turn it up slowly as to not completely overpower your players! The idea is to have fun!
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Cass100199

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« Reply #2 on: <08-21-11/1210:33> »
Murpy's Law, man. Nothing is ever permanent. The legwork works today, but things can always change overnight. And some intel is just plain wrong.
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Cthulhutech

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« Reply #3 on: <08-21-11/1416:36> »
Another thing I've noticed is that the game does tend to be real easy if you use nothing but the grunts out of the book.  Throw in an enemy every once in a while that's the equal of the characters.  My Shadowrun game ran like that for two years...and then I threw in a team that I had designed to be the equal of the runners in every way.  Suddenly they had a real fight on their hands!

Also remember that enemies don't just line up single file and wait to be shot by the players.  Have them use tactics, have them use cover.  Even grunts can suddenly become a lot more dangerous if one or two of them are laying down suppressing fire that gives the others enough time to outflank the players.

The Big Peat

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« Reply #4 on: <08-21-11/1418:25> »
Sometimes contacts have lives of their own and aren't available to give the relevant details.

Sometimes they just plain don't know.

Sometimes they've been lied to.

Sometimes the enemy changes its plan before they can react.

Sometimes the contact wants something in return, and that gets them in trouble.

XelosUchiha

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« Reply #5 on: <08-21-11/1637:23> »
Don't be afraid to "screw" over the players! Remember that when you're GMing you are NOT their friend, you are their GM. Your job is to provide them with a fun game. Letting them get away with whatever they want might seem like fun to them but if you give them a challenging game that is something they will remember.
If they can think around obstacles and do the unexpected, you have to do the same. Its very important for a GM to think on his feet and its no problem to "pause" the game while you throw together an encounter.

For example: maybe you have a big fight planned but the character's find some way around it. Maybe the sneak through the back and steal whatever and get away clean. Or did they? Maybe they walk through an ally and are ambushed by a gang. Or maybe the piece they stole was fake and now they have to try something else.

Or has been suggested in this thread, maybe they were given false information by a contact and walk into a huge ambush. Don't be afraid to change your plan, even when running a pre-made mission.
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Crash_00

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« Reply #6 on: <08-21-11/1652:47> »
Well before I give any advice, I want to make sure and add this bit:
Never punish your players for a good plan!

There are three big wrenches I've found that tend to throw players a challenge.
Plan A: The classic double cross. It doesn't have to even be a let's get rid of the evidence (read as runners) after the job type double cross. Sometimes just leaving out information or changing information during the job offer is enough to cause a nice challenge.

Plan B: The unwilling extraction. Just because a target is being extracted doesn't mean he wants to be. Offers could have changed since the beginning, family could be held hostage, etc. Have the extraction target fight back or try to escape. Works best if you wait for a good distraction for him to take off. Even better if its a mage that has any mind influencing spells  ;D .

Plan C: The other team. They don't necessarily have to be opposing your runners, but usually having another team in the same place at the same time is enough to spark a nice, brutal fight.

baronspam

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« Reply #7 on: <08-21-11/2023:45> »
Players should be living with the fact that their characters are always outnumbered and always outgunned.  Perhaps not in a given fight, but the other side, be it a corp, a criminal group, a government, what have you, has more guys, more resources, more time, more money than they do.  Runners survive by keeping it anonymous and making it more trouble than it is worth to track them down and do them in. 

A runner who doesn't have a thought in the back of his mind that if things go pear shaped they will be staring down 40 assault rifles with under barrel grenade launchers isn't seeing the bigger picture.

Sometimes intell is old, wrong, or flat fabricated.  The guy who is willing to sell you the security specs might have a file that is five years old, might have something from another facility, or something he banged together with an edit program.  Why did he do it.  He wanted the money, honey.

Contacts have their own problems.  Sometimes they don't know what you want to know, have been leaned on by someone bigger than you, or just flat got a better offer. 

Sometimes your luck just flat blows.  The day you pick for the extraction a senior V.P. is touring the facility and there are 30 extra guys in milspec armor with machine gun toting rotodrones on the perimeter.   

Sometimes you get back to the meet with Mr. Johnson and he has decided its cheaper to kill you than pay you.  He has 8 cybertrolls with Gatling guns waiting to take the package off your hands.

You aren't the only runners in the sprawl.  There can be another team after the mcguffin.  There can be anther team who has been hired to remove your liver through you left ear.  Smart professionasl who know all the dirty tricks the player characters know are about the worst enemy there are.


CanRay

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« Reply #8 on: <08-21-11/2058:18> »
I just reach back into my childhood and remember what GI Joe and the Autobots taught me:  "Knowing is half the battle."

I figured out that the other half must be violence.
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shion

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« Reply #9 on: <08-23-11/1617:42> »
Do you have a concrete example to work with of something that threw a wrench in your well plotted plans?

To be fair, sometimes if the characters are particularly clever you should let them have it mostly their way.   If you always railroad them with, that doesn't work cause of "pick something out of gm grab bag" and "oh the store is all out of duct tape... again" it eventually looses it's fun and becomes more like a laborious pre-plotted video game.

Stalin00

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« Reply #10 on: <08-23-11/2040:54> »
so i ran a game yesterday, prolly the best game i have run the whole game.  my real problem is before they were going against mooks, with  a few solo or x2 boss fights.

     so in last nights game they hit up a lab (i used the color map from the dm screen box set) and the companys parent company had a security detail droped off.  the corp was aware of there run.

     4 company men of equal stats to my 5 man party showed up. it was rought just getting in. they played 3+ hours and made it 1/2 threw the run before 12:00, i had to call it

    but they wanted to keep going.                            thanks for all the advice, Phil

CanRay

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« Reply #11 on: <08-23-11/2151:58> »
Do you have a concrete example to work with of something that threw a wrench in your well plotted plans?
Well, my group decided to use the "MEGA-ULTRA-SCARY BUS BOMB" that their Irish Republican Army in Exile contact had (The one that scared the rest of the Seattle chapter of the IRAiE!).

Not only would it have derailed my plans, it would have ended in a TPK, and rewritten the face of Seattle for any future campaigns I ran, as I'd have wanted the group to learn about consequences.  Likely, it would have been an Urban Warfare campaign next as the NAN invaded Seattle, and the UCAS responded.
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XelosUchiha

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« Reply #12 on: <08-23-11/2205:50> »
Well i think the first problem would be even giving them POSSIBLE access to something that destructive. Don't even mention the possibility that your party can gain access to anything uber powerful. If they think they can get it, they will try. And if they succeed, then you're in trouble!
"I'm going to have to treat you as if you're a ramming vehicle"

CanRay

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« Reply #13 on: <08-23-11/2209:26> »
Yeah, never expect Players to take subtle hints like "The Irish Terrorists are *SCARED* of this thing!".  Be less subtle.  :P

EDIT:  BTW, they were one success away from it working.  I pointed that out to them the other night and the cold sweat could be seen as the realization sunk in.
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Kontact

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« Reply #14 on: <09-08-11/0902:45> »
Turns out they just broke into a bug hive...

Enjoy trying to get out without a pair of antenna..  ;)

 

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