[Ranger]

From what I have gathered it seems like Harlequin is treated by the other Immortal Elves like that wierd uncle that comes to the reunion though no one really wants him there, and the Great Dragons whom he seems to converse with on a familar level for the most part also seem to have some wierd respect/dislike for him.  I have dug into things as muchas I can and can't seem to come up with the reason behind this.  Is it something that he did in the Earthdawn timeframe or someplace in the middle.  I notice that even though the other immortla elves seem to treat him as an outcast he is still a go between for them and Aina in Worlds Without End, though I think thats because they all think she is a bit crazy and obssesed with the Horrors.  Laughing Man and the Big D seem to have a lively banter on several occasions in the older source books though I seem to recall after Big D's assasination the Harlequin said something along the lines of I miss him but I was gonna have to kill him eventually. The two did seem to be like mided on several topics.

Anyhow if anyone could through some light on the subject that would be appreciated.

[CanRay]

Take into consideration his name, and what it eventually corrupted into being used as in English.

'Nuff said.

[Ranger]

The Har'le' aquin name?  Or Caimbeul?  I mean I realize it is more than likely he pulled something on the elves that made them mad but I was wondering if he was running around slaying dragons or something along those lines.  And if he was killing Dragons why would D will him Excalibur (even though it was misplaced at the time).  I mean he is sort of Captain Jack Sparrowy but with a pile of magic behind him.  It seems like he was a constant thorn in the sides of everyone around.  But if he hosed everyone over too much wouldn't someone have killed him by now?  I get the whole honor thing between he and Ehrna with the don't kill each other during the orginal Harlequin story though it does say that there is a vwersion of the game where the loser does get killed.  Maybe the dragons don't kill him because they are afraid of the fallout with the other immortal elves.  But that brings me right back to if why wouldn't someone kill him unless he has 'something' of some type of value to 'someone.'  Admittedly he does seem to know alot about the horrors and what not and seemed to deal with them well - ok so he actually gets runners to handle them.  Though any of the immortals or great dragons for that matter would also seem to be able to handle them as well as have that knowledge.  It almost seems like he did some kind of deal where he tricked the elves and dragons at the same time with the same scam and for some reason he is disliked for it but still given respect for it. 

Sure the big picture this is pretty much a not that important, but piecing together the connection here is my obbsession I guess.

[CanRay]

My personal theory is that he did one of two things (And possibly both.):

One:  He broke with what everyone else was doing and was various famous people while the Fifth World was going on.  I doubt Elvis, but wouldn't put Buddy Holly past him.  (And there was a Neil Young joke earlier.).

Two:  He got pissed off during the down-time period with all the politics of "How we're going to get the world ready for the Horrors this time!" and how everyone had their own plan, and wanted to do their own thing, and fought hard to get everyone to work together.  Then, when the dragons awoke (Who IEs don't like to begin with), did the SAME BLOODY THING.  Which pissed the Dragons off, because they don't play well with each other, forget IEs.  Dunkie probably had some similar ideas, and they got along pretty well.  As for the "I was gonna have to kill him eventually anyway" comment...  I think that might be more a matter of "Better to have honorable enemies than friends of any type."  Certainly fits the mindset of the ancient ones...

[Ranger]

Good points I hadnt thought much of the first one till you said that but it would make sense.  Especailly since we know Alachia (sp?) meddle in the world as well and he seems to have a specail place in his heart for her (watch for falling drops of sarcasm).  And it would definatley fit his character to pull some similar shennanigans.

And the second point makes a lot of sense and is pretty close to what I was thinking whatever he did to tick off everyone Big D was either involved with him in some fashion or was at least in agreement with him.  Also the way he liked to be 'clever' the kill him eventually comment could be a middle finger to the people that were mad about the two of them getting along as well as they did.  It does seem that those two were the biggest propnents of getting ready for the horrors.  D's sacrifice and Harlequins well getting other people to do his dirty work for him.  In his own way though he was doing what he thought was best.

[Ranger]

I just realized something - being a bit of an old guy myself I remeber when 21 Jumpstreet was on TV and Johnny Depp doesn't appear to be aging- just something to think about lol

[Fizzygoo]

I think, perhaps hypothesize is a better word, that there is a simple foundation upon which this web of ire towards Harlequin and Dunkelzhan is built.

Racism.

Both the immortal elves and the dragons have a common superiority complex when it comes to, well, basically everything except themselves and their own cultures. It was Alachia who threw her weight in with Hitler, after all (Worlds Without End, pg 63-64); was it she who planted the idea of a "perfect race?"

The works of Harlequin and Dunkelzhan inevitably lead towards inclusion of the other species in both knowledge and power of and over the worlds in which they live. The other immortal elves and dragons start from racism and build up their justifications from there. They may do it more eloquently than a neo-nazi or klansman, but it is specifically that eloquence that makes them so dangerous...well, the eloquence backed by thousands of years of knowledge and power.

[CanRay]

And money.  Connections.  An ability to drink an ork under the table.

[Fizzygoo]

Why would anyone want to sit under a table and drink an ork smoothie? Le ew.

[Fallen]

Hi!

Came across this bit of info that might help fuel the debate:

Harlequin was born in the Fourth World. In the Age of Legends, he was a senior Knight of the Crimson Spire of the City of Spires, Sereatha. The Knights of the Crimson Spire were dedicated to the preservation and protection of elven culture and traditions. Harlequin served as Sereatha's ambassador to the Elven Court in the Blood Wood. While ambassador, he loudly condemned the corruption of the elves of the Blood Wood. Queen Alachia ignored all his criticisms, causing others to believe the two were related by family or were on intimate terms. Some unknown tragedy broke Harlequin's spirit, removing all notions of being a noble knight. As the last of his order, Harlequin is also known as the Last Knight of the Crying Spire.

He may have been King Richard the Lion-Hearted. According to Harlequin, King Richard I's armor "still fits," though this may be one of his jokes.

In Renaissance-era France, he fought a chal'han with Ehran the Scribe and lost. In the final physical duel, Ehran cut off Harlequin's left ear.

He has spent much of the Sixth World focused on magical research and his hatred of Ehran. During the early 2050s, he challenged Ehran to another chal'han. After the duel, he took Ehran's daughter, Jane "Frosty" Foster into his care. With the completion of the duel, Harlequin fell into a drunken stupor, having nothing further to drive him on. The Mad Passion Vestrial appeared to Harlequin, spurring him to undertake an astral quest to recover Thayla and her voice to prevent the Horrors from crossing the Spike Point created by the Great Ghost Dance. In 2056, several kahunas opened a gateway and several Horrors did cross. With the aid of Dirk Montgomery, the gate was closed. Soon afterwards, he helped Aina fight the Horror Ysrthgrathe. In August 2057, he and Aina joined with Ryan Mercury to use the Dragon Heart to finally level out the Spike Point.

Source

NOTE: My linking the above is in no way meant to encourage nor discourage any persons from frequenting either area of the Internet relating to matters concerning Shadowrun (this forum and the other web domain presented in the link) and is in no way meant to challenge either websites, their respective Terms of Agreement or their respective Rules of conduct.

[CanRay]

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Don't slot with the Harlequin!  Or Harley Quinn, for that matter. 

[Fallen]

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Don't slot with the Harlequin!  Or Harley Quinn, for that matter. 

Both are very reliable sources of Cool, imo.

[BSOD]

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Don't slot with the Harlequin!  Or Harley Quinn, for that matter. 

Both are very reliable sources of Cool, imo.

Never thought I'd see 'Harley Quinn' and 'Reliable' in the same sentence. 

[Longshot23]

The difference being, of course, Harley Quinn is a sidekick - Harlequin is not.

[CanRay]

The difference being, of course, Harley Quinn is a sidekick - Harlequin is not.

Harley Quinn is stuck in an abusive relationship making her possibly one of the worst of The Joker's victims.

On her own (Well, partnered with "Red", Poison Ivy), she stands on her own as much as any of Batman's other Rogue's Gallery.  Also, take into consideration what happened when she went straight.  Took the damned army to stop her!