[Sichr]

Oh is this just a pure mage group? If so then maybe, but the mage only needs to buy goggles and slot them with ultrasound vision. <.< I don't know why he would need essence when he can just have any form of AR to help him see that way. At least he'll have a head's up it's about to come around the corner. xD Though you brough up a good point, Astral Perception which he'd be able to see through walls and see it before it's coming anyways.

I was picturing much larger mirrors, I'm guessing your talking small ones down to see into rooms. Though if they are looking for camera's I think they'd also notice a gleam. >.> though on a perception test what would you make that, a 3 or 4 hits? Easily done with a character with perception. (or at least it seems that way in my group right now for the one or two characters that actually have perception)

Anyways definitely good idea's that I'm going to keep in my box of goodies for later.

If you do i that way, Mage will be able to see the tasrget with ultrasound, but for spellcasting..to establish needed LOS nanalink, he will still roll with Full darkness vision modifier. You need to pay the essence for any technological augmentation to be able to cast spell throught it.

Astral sight will not establish LOS manalink on physical targets.

That Magesight WtW mentioned is standard issue, much versatile than mirror maze.

In fact, that Maze idea is good, more cover and oportunity to break LOS, the better for oposing force.

Dont forget that cover modifiers apply for direct combat spells. What seems to be the problem are indirect splees.

As for that +3IP foci mentioned at the beginning: Astral present spirits would make this spell much more variable, since character may need to fight in two separate Layers at one time, And active foci may be targeted from astral IMO even if mage is not astraly perceivin...thus by activating it he bacame target for anyone able to operate in astral, even for LOS mana spells.

[Zilfer]

Oh is this just a pure mage group? If so then maybe, but the mage only needs to buy goggles and slot them with ultrasound vision. <.< I don't know why he would need essence when he can just have any form of AR to help him see that way. At least he'll have a head's up it's about to come around the corner. xD Though you brough up a good point, Astral Perception which he'd be able to see through walls and see it before it's coming anyways.

I was picturing much larger mirrors, I'm guessing your talking small ones down to see into rooms. Though if they are looking for camera's I think they'd also notice a gleam. >.> though on a perception test what would you make that, a 3 or 4 hits? Easily done with a character with perception. (or at least it seems that way in my group right now for the one or two characters that actually have perception)

Anyways definitely good idea's that I'm going to keep in my box of goodies for later.

If you do i that way, Mage will be able to see the tasrget with ultrasound, but for spellcasting..to establish needed LOS nanalink, he will still roll with Full darkness vision modifier. You need to pay the essence for any technological augmentation to be able to cast spell throught it.

Astral sight will not establish LOS manalink on physical targets.

That Magesight WtW mentioned is standard issue, much versatile than mirror maze.

In fact, that Maze idea is good, more cover and oportunity to break LOS, the better for oposing force.

Dont forget that cover modifiers apply for direct combat spells. What seems to be the problem are indirect splees.

As for that +3IP foci mentioned at the beginning: Astral present spirits would make this spell much more variable, since character may need to fight in two separate Layers at one time, And active foci may be targeted from astral IMO even if mage is not astraly perceivin...thus by activating it he bacame target for anyone able to operate in astral, even for LOS mana spells.

Sure you can't cast directly at him through the wall with astral perception but then you know he's there, and can tell your team members around the location of where they are in the building. Unless of course there's something like a mana wall which might stop astral perception? o.O' not sure on that. XD

[Sichr]

hm...In astral topographz there is written that walls ets casts shadows on astral plane, and reduces visibilitz also IMO. IDN if it is enought to break LOS.
Otherwise...common solution...spend some essence for UWB radar 

[Zilfer]

hm...In astral topographz there is written that walls ets casts shadows on astral plane, and reduces visibilitz also IMO. IDN if it is enought to break LOS.
Otherwise...common solution...spend some essence for UWB radar 

So question, if a mage is wearing goggles or glasses can he not cast? If it's helping him augment his vision? What if everything is turned off and he's still wearing a biker helmet or goggles?

[shion]

 
I'm planning to use the disrupt focus spell in some future encounters.

Is this in the street magic book?  Is it a mana spell?  If so I assume then you could cast it astrally against an active focus.  Seems my other post was re-inventing the wheel, as this is exactly what I argued would be created in responses to the horde of mages running about with sustaining foci (other post).   Now i need an area effect one to get groups of awakened mages with active foci

In terms of dealing with mages, astral barriers in an installation will force characters to recast their spells, thus taking more and more drain for each one they cross.   Having the local awakened security sitting around in astral space waiting to ambush them when they astrally perceive.  Bound spirits to the industial location with instructions to whack anything that goes astral (ie. focus's turning on, mages percieving). Possibly adding instructions to ignore the binder of the spirit.   I mean you figure a corp could afford to sustain a half dozen bound spirits for each important facility right?  Then you have the corp post a notice saying... this is a magic restricted zone with significan hazzards for any objects or people who access the astral plane while on the premises.

If I was a corp, this is what I'd do, have a rotating duo of mages go to each location once a week, bind a whack of spirits there, give them instructions about the one mage to ignore, rinse repeat.

[Sichr]

 
I'm planning to use the disrupt focus spell in some future encounters.

Is this in the street magic book?  Is it a mana spell?  If so I assume then you could cast it astrally against an active focus.  Seems my other post was re-inventing the wheel, as this is exactly what I argued would be created in responses to the horde of mages running about with sustaining foci (other post).   Now i need an area effect one to get groups of awakened mages with active foci

In terms of dealing with mages, astral barriers in an installation will force characters to recast their spells, thus taking more and more drain for each one they cross.   Having the local awakened security sitting around in astral space waiting to ambush them when they astrally perceive.  Bound spirits to the industial location with instructions to whack anything that goes astral (ie. focus's turning on, mages percieving). Possibly adding instructions to ignore the binder of the spirit.   I mean you figure a corp could afford to sustain a half dozen bound spirits for each important facility right?  Then you have the corp post a notice saying... this is a magic restricted zone with significan hazzards for any objects or people who access the astral plane while on the premises.

If I was a corp, this is what I'd do, have a rotating duo of mages go to each location once a week, bind a whack of spirits there, give them instructions about the one mage to ignore, rinse repeat.

IMO Better...with active foci, as I said before, you may be targeted from astral plane...so you have to be on double watch...

Disrupt focus is from Digital grimoire. one of those spell that is usefull in there...on contrary Illusion spells there: False impression and Manascape, are RAW impossible, must have been done by someone who didnt read core rules...

[shion]

I don't believe you can be targeted from the astral plane personally, just by having a foci active.  The foci could be targeted, but you would not be.  And there's no grounding anymore, sadly, so whatever mana spell cast against that active foci in astral will only affect other astrally percieving/dual natured/ objects even if it were an area effect.   Unless I've missed something major in the rules?

[Sichr]

hm...idn if its RAW...but foci creates a channel between astral and physical world...as I remember tha was the way how it works in 2nd ed. I havent used this in SRA, but IMo if you cast stunball ar manaball on active foci, it will affect both astral and physical plane, due to foci dual nature...like casting area effect mana spell on dual natured critter. But that is just assumption, don know if rules support this (since i havent seen that  or I cannot recall, possibly it is just my imagination No matter what, Focus, bound by Karma, become part o your aura..and if they are active, your aura become  dual natured IMO

[Pyromaster13]

hm...idn if its RAW...but foci creates a channel between astral and physical world...as I remember tha was the way how it works in 2nd ed. I havent used this in SRA, but IMo if you cast stunball ar manaball on active foci, it will affect both astral and physical plane, due to foci dual nature...like casting area effect mana spell on dual natured critter. But that is just assumption, don know if rules support this (since i havent seen that  or I cannot recall, possibly it is just my imagination No matter what, Focus, bound by Karma, become part o your aura..and if they are active, your aura become  dual natured IMO

I always thought that foci merely contain the same aura as your own, but does not become a part of it, which is why you need to take metamagic to hide it as part of your aura. if it was already a part of it, why would it stand out astrally if active (or even inactive). 

I like to invision this scenario as a dual natured apple on someones head, you can shoot the apple but it's still seperate from the person.  Now say you shot that apple astrally with an aoe powerbolt (lets say a grenade for the analogy), the apple still explodes, but the physical person is unharmed because the grenade exploded on the astral plane and the person is not dual natured.  It's like making a called shot with a grenade launcher in meatspace against a floating active foci, then when it hits you say it explodes astrally killing all the projecting mages because it hit the foci.

One of the bigger rules that they tell you about the limits of spells is that no matter how hard you try, spells can never bridge over from astral to physical.  A spell can't bypass that obvious obstacle just because the target is dual natured.  The only thing that can actually bridge something like that would be a very powerful astral rift, and if something like that came along the world would probably be doomed anyways.

[Sichr]

hm...idn if its RAW...but foci creates a channel between astral and physical world...as I remember tha was the way how it works in 2nd ed. I havent used this in SRA, but IMo if you cast stunball ar manaball on active foci, it will affect both astral and physical plane, due to foci dual nature...like casting area effect mana spell on dual natured critter. But that is just assumption, don know if rules support this (since i havent seen that  or I cannot recall, possibly it is just my imagination No matter what, Focus, bound by Karma, become part o your aura..and if they are active, your aura become  dual natured IMO

I always thought that foci merely contain the same aura as your own, but does not become a part of it, which is why you need to take metamagic to hide it as part of your aura. if it was already a part of it, why would it stand out astrally if active (or even inactive). 

I like to invision this scenario as a dual natured apple on someones head, you can shoot the apple but it's still seperate from the person.  Now say you shot that apple astrally with an aoe powerbolt (lets say a grenade for the analogy), the apple still explodes, but the physical person is unharmed because the grenade exploded on the astral plane and the person is not dual natured.  It's like making a called shot with a grenade launcher in meatspace against a floating active foci, then when it hits you say it explodes astrally killing all the projecting mages because it hit the foci.

One of the bigger rules that they tell you about the limits of spells is that no matter how hard you try, spells can never bridge over from astral to physical.  A spell can't bypass that obvious obstacle just because the target is dual natured.  The only thing that can actually bridge something like that would be a very powerful astral rift, and if something like that came along the world would probably be doomed anyways.

Wlee, my 2 cents...
Cent 1: IE Weapon focus. Your metaphore with an apple is nice, but in this case apple gives the character ability to fight better...so IMO that apple is mutually interconected with characters aura, not stand alone astral object. The same goes with sustaining focus...if the foci is separated from characters aura, the spell works only on the foci.
But this discussion would be better to attend on MIT&M, looks mostly theoretical to me...well I dont mind to be geek from time to time
In 2nd ED, in the opening shortstory ("Plus ca change,...") there is a moment runner magician attacks wage mage throught astral space, attacking his foci, forcing him into astral combat...thus saving his team from being targetted by spells, because wage mage has a lot of other things to attend.

Cent 2: You are right, with such spell only dual natured beings will be hurt, spell would not affect physical space. Not absofuckinlutely convienced about it, but it seems to work good with rules...and astral rifts are goood...to give non magical characters a chance to play the part in awakened run...taking them for example to Shedim metaplane

[Charybdis]

There are two easy ways to mess with mages:

A) Increased technology. Mages suck at taking out objects with a decent structure rating or object resistance. A couple of mini-gun turrets with Redundant Processing R2 (OR = 7) will ruin pretty much any mages day
B) Counter magic: Wagemages can provide wards and counterspelling which can seriously limit (if not completely sut down) an opposing magician.

The panic room idea is solid (but expensive, so isn't going to show up just everywhere). Mages using fibre-optic links can spellcast normally (although the standard -2 dice for cover normall applies). The mage doesn't need to spend essence, but can sit quiety in the equivalent of a rigger room, and as long as every fibre optic cable is linked to every room, then the entire base is covered. This counts as an optical enhancement, which is perfectly legitimate for most Sorcery tasks (especially Direct combat spells and Mental Manipulations)

Note, this includes COUNTERSPELLING. Ergo, a mage can sit in the panic room, and provide Counterspelling dice to any target the runners are fighting.

This also includes conjuring. As the runners move from room to room, there can be a spirit summoning every time (dep[ending on drain requirements), and watchers in there warning that further violence will not be tolerated, we're watching you etc etc.

Ergo, mage panic rooms are bad.

[shion]

That's why you always toss a smoke grenade into each room before entering.  Or turn off the light switch I suppose..... see me now fiber optic camera

[Pyromaster13]

That's why you always toss a smoke grenade into each room before entering.  Or turn off the light switch I suppose..... see me now fiber optic camera

There are only so many grenades in the world... I say just project to search him through walls and hope he didn't put a ward up.

[Trenchknife]

IMO foci do NOT make the mage susceptible to attacks from the astral if he is not astrally perceiving.  If that were so they would force the mage to become Dual Natured...which they do not.

[shion]

Nope, but the bound spirits in a place can always just attack your sustained foci.   Hope those weren't needed for anything....