[wastedwalker]

Not a ward within a ward because the books state that isn't possible, but if you make Ward A in the hallway and it ends there, then the mage goes into another area where there is another ward the mage trying to copy his aura will have to deal with that.

[Sichr]

In fact, the metamagic you ned to pass throught Ward by copying someones aura, you need Flexible signature metamagic, not masking (Masking only works to hide your magic level, but against ward it is ineffective..)

[Naielo]

In fact, the metamagic you ned to pass throught Ward by copying someones aura, you need Flexible signature metamagic, not masking (Masking only works to hide your magic level, but against ward it is ineffective..)

Reread Street magic

"Only magicians with the Masking metamagic technique
(p. 190, SR4) or spirits with the Aura Masking
power (p. 98) may attempt to synchronize their aura with
a ward in such a way. In order to synchronize one’s aura so
it mimics a ward’s creator, the synchronizing magician or
spirit must be able to see the creator’s aura to use as a reference.
One way to do this is to track the astral link present
between a ward and its creator (see Astral Tracking, p. 185,
SR4). Then an Opposed Test is made between the initiate’s
Intuition + Magic + initiate grade and the ward’s Force x
2. If the intruding magician succeeds, the ward no longer
inhibits them. If the ward wins, it continues to inhibit the
intruding magician, but does not alert its creator until the
intruding magician tries to force his way through by another
method."

[wastedwalker]

Fun thing to do with Masking is capture the aura of a mage you hate, make your aura match theirs, kill some people with spells and watch their rep go to hell. If your roll was good enough on masking it would require a high degree of successes to notice it was fake. My first post on the forums was after my mage killed the Johnson that tried to kill us on a job he hired us for. I had 6 successes on masking my aura, so the investigators would have needed 3 hits to see the aura and another 6 on top of that to see it was a fake aura. If you magic and initiation are really high, you can make it near impossible for someone to tell who you really are.

[Naielo]

Fun thing to do with Masking is capture the aura of a mage you hate, make your aura match theirs, kill some people with spells and watch their rep go to hell. If your roll was good enough on masking it would require a high degree of successes to notice it was fake. My first post on the forums was after my mage killed the Johnson that tried to kill us on a job he hired us for. I had 6 successes on masking my aura, so the investigators would have needed 3 hits to see the aura and another 6 on top of that to see it was a fake aura. If you magic and initiation are really high, you can make it near impossible for someone to tell who you really are.

i kinda feel bad for correcting everyone but, it is flexible signature to have your aura "appear" as someone elses not masking i think this is where the confusion about matching a ward was prevously in this post.

so yeah you need flexible signature aswell as you dont actually get to roll you just get your initiation grade above the threshold of 3 (to detect your aura) in order for them to see your fake on. yes this works quite well once you get higher grade. rank 5 initiate you need a threshold of 8 on your assensing test which would mean to reliably detect it they would need 24 dice on an assensing test (i dont even think that is possible).



Pg 198 SR4A
"When someone attempts to assense a faked signature, add
the faking magician’s initiate grade to the Assensing Test threshold.
So if a grade 2 initiate leaves a forged astral signature, another
magician would need to score only 3 hits as usual to see the fake
signature, but would need 5 hits to realize the signature was fake"

[wastedwalker]

Don't feel bad, my brain is dead lately. It would help if I had my sheet in front of me instead of White Night. Dresden takes away from all logical thoughts, sitting in my recliner with my laptop up on a day off doesn't help either heh.

Masking: A character who learns masking can change the appearance
of her aura/astral form to do the following: look mundane, look
as though her Magic is higher or lower than it is (+/– your grade of
initiation), or look as though she is a different type of astral creature.
When someone attempts to assense the aura of an initiate
using masking, make an Assensing + Intuition Opposed Test
against the initiate’s Intuition + Magic + initiate grade. If they
get fewer hits, they see only the false aura. If they get more hits,
they will see both the illusory aura she provided and her true aura.
To disguise her astral form to look like a spirit or other astrally
active creature, the character must be capable of astral projection.

Use Masking to make your aura that of an awakened animal, same effect as the Flex just they will wonder how an awakened animal was lobbing mana balls around at people. They will have a good idea it is fake but if it fades before they can check it they get jack on it. That is what I did to the johnson, used our Doc's awakened wolf's aura as my own and was walking around with 6 hits on my roll. Someone would have needed 7 hits to see my aura for what it is, 9 hits to notice the aura and see it as a fake.

[Naielo]

just to get back the the OP's questions ill summarise some stuff.

first off all my recomendation is to throw in the occasional countermage even with 9 dice in counterspell provides resistance to all NPC's in LOS of the mage, helps drastically reduce the effectiveness of spells.

Second is drones: in order to hit a drone with a direct combat spell you have to get more net hits then its Object resistance which is generally 5 or 6 meaning a mage would need 6 or 7 hits on spellcasting respecitivly to achieve 1 net hit. making spells vs drones hard (not sure the specific mechanics of this rule so it would need to be looked up), and they are immune to mana spells so the drain is higher also puttiing more stress on your mage pc's.

the third is areas where mundane guards would be have a small area ward even F4 drastically helps. like a guardhouse on the driveway have it warded no spirits can enter (or it sets alarm off) any spell cast through the ward has its force reduced by the force of the ward so you F5 spells are now F1.

astral patrolling watchers, or full scale spirits. to warn the mage if they detect anything.

Remember casting spells is generally illegal without a license especially combat spells, most mages dont get fake licenses for them. and they are trackable if the mage doesnt spend complex actions to erase the spell (i beeleive its complex actions equal to the force), most players that forget this will also be forgetting the license. might wanna remind them, or have a lone star show up at their door and fine them. this canalso  easily be cross refrenced to active or passive PANS in the area with some leg work on Knight Errants side which could result in a Burnt SIN and maybe even loss of a lifestyle.

i would be leary about using the Rigger room for a mage (the one with the optical cables) unless the mage is warded the players could easily summon a spirit and have it (or 2 spirits) go attack the mage and kill him or knock him unconsious, and if it is warded they can track any of the mages that made the ward (which will be more then that 1 cause he cant work 24/7) and they need access to the ward to. so then they mask and walk through the ward. again knock him unconsious or kill him. and if the mage does it himself... i can see the whole facilty and cast spells everywhere.

Spiders. makes any B&E a Nightmare even for non mage parties. throw some drones in for some more fun.

thats all i can think of ATM ill post more if i can think of it
Naielo

[kirk]

One weakness of the panic room is that the mage has to know where to look. Once combat (and reports over comms) start that ends, of course. But prior to that there's the need for a perception test given the dozens (hundreds?) of windows that need watching.

Drones have one weakness that makes lightning bolt a good spell choice.  They have to roll body + armor (+ nonconduct) against the attacks. Fail, and they shut down for several combat turns.  The doberman, a frequent combat drone choice, gets a whopping 9 dice basic. Maxed armor and non-conduct it's 21 dice for ~7 hits. How easy do you think it is to get over 7 DV?

Point is that relying on drones for anti-mage work is problematic.

[Charybdis]

One weakness of the panic room is that the mage has to know where to look. Once combat (and reports over comms) start that ends, of course. But prior to that there's the need for a perception test given the dozens (hundreds?) of windows that need watching.

Drones have one weakness that makes lightning bolt a good spell choice.  They have to roll body + armor (+ nonconduct) against the attacks. Fail, and they shut down for several combat turns.  The doberman, a frequent combat drone choice, gets a whopping 9 dice basic. Maxed armor and non-conduct it's 21 dice for ~7 hits. How easy do you think it is to get over 7 DV?

Point is that relying on drones for anti-mage work is problematic.

This really isn't a problem with  layered security (The NSA wrote a paper on it, but it's just basic security mechanics that have been in use since well before Roman times)

Basically, layer your security.
- Have motion sensors and other triggers for notifications of issues with a room (Drones, Pressure sensors, thermal signature, awakened ivy etc)
- Have these sensors trigger alarms to direct attention
- Have mage spy on room with Mage-sight Fibre-optics....
- Stunball room
- Send in Paracritters/Security to mop up

Note: Electricity on drones isn't a damaging effect.
 - Lightning Bolt, is an Electrical attack which is always Stun damage (SR4A p.163,164)
 - Drones/Vehicles are immunt to stun damage (SR4A p.167 under Condition Monitor)
However the Shut-down component of the attack is excellent. I'm just clarifying that DV is irrelevent.

[Zilfer]

Where in the book did it say you couldn't put a barrier in a barrier or visa versa? I'm curious because a PC tried that with me and I let it slide. <.<'

[Sichr]

Wards are exclusive...IDN about barriers

[Zilfer]

Wards are exclusive...IDN about barriers

I thought a "Ward" was a Mana Barrier..... if not

then what's a ward!!?!?!?

[wastedwalker]

Pg 124 of Street Magic.

Wards are Exclusive
Wards cannot be layered or overlap in the same area
of astral space. Magicians seeking redundant astral security
measures will often put a series of wards in place, much
like a gauntlet an intruder would have to pass through,
but they cannot place multiple wards on the same space in
an effort to make intrusion exponentially more difficult.
Attempting to place a new ward where it would intersect
with another ward results in the new ward simply failing.

[Sichr]

Pg 124 of Street Magic.

Wards are Exclusive
Wards cannot be layered or overlap in the same area
of astral space. Magicians seeking redundant astral security
measures will often put a series of wards in place, much
like a gauntlet an intruder would have to pass through,
but they cannot place multiple wards on the same space in
an effort to make intrusion exponentially more difficult.
Attempting to place a new ward where it would intersect
with another ward results in the new ward simply failing.

Word Intersect makes me wander, if ward within a ward is considered legal?

[wastedwalker]

Pg 124 of Street Magic.

Wards are Exclusive
Wards cannot be layered or overlap in the same area
of astral space. Magicians seeking redundant astral security
measures will often put a series of wards in place, much
like a gauntlet an intruder would have to pass through,
but they cannot place multiple wards on the same space in
an effort to make intrusion exponentially more difficult.
Attempting to place a new ward where it would intersect
with another ward results in the new ward simply failing.

Word Intersect makes me wander, if ward within a ward is considered legal?

The first sentence makes it say yes it is. But it all depends on your GM, some would looks at it and say they do, though a whole building that is warded then inside of the building individual rooms warded again, well it would make the whole building a beacon yelling "Come and screw with me" in the astral. Also the cost for warding the building would be nuts. There is also the fact that inside of the ward you have to have a focal point for the ward, if you have several focal points in a room it could be seen as overlapping. Plus all it takes is a single guy walking in moving everything 1/2 a cm in any direction to cause it all to fail. A spiting with the Quake ability is murder on all wards.