[baronspam]

I don't have a specific character on this one, but I was pondering the viability of troll mages the other day.  Here are my thoughts on it.

Troll metatype cost 40, you get a ton of body, more than most mages would have but body is always nice, and a bunch of strenght, which might be hard to put to good use but it come with the package.  40 points may seem like a lot but you would have spent at lest some of that on body anyway, so I don't think you are really overspending here. Point of armor and free thermal vision, all good.  Now the huge downside, lowered max on Chr, Intuition, and Logic.

It seems to be the main drawback of the troll mage is your dice pool to resist drain.  Your casting/summoning are magic+skill, so there is no reason you can't be as good at those tasks as any other mage.  But when I build a mage I really like to have a dice pool of 10 or more for resisting drain.  The troll will have to hardcap at least one, and maybe two stats if you go with a chr tradition, to get to the same level.  Thats very inefficient in terms of build points.  If you softcap will and choose a non chr tradition and softcap your drain stat you are at 9 dice.  Not terrible, but slightly behind the curve.  You still on average resist 3 points of drain. 

In compensation for that, you get some extras in other areas.  Your naturally high body and natural armor mean you can wear much more armor than the typical mage, especially in situations where subtle doesn't matter.  If you wanted to make use of that strength then a modest agility+increased agility spell+a combat focus+blades skill =axe of the trollish lords.  Again, its hard to take a combat axe to the high end club, but when non-subtle is called for you have a nice secondary option.

On the downside, being both the troll and the mage really makes you the primary target for the alpha strike.  Hopefully the GM would not be too much of a schmuck about that. 

Anyway, just musing.  Anyone every play a troll mage in actually play?  How did it go?  Any advice?  Just crunching numbers in the abstract I think I would put it in the "playable but slightly suboptimal" category due to slightly lower drain pool.

[Makki]

I played a Troll Druid for a long campaign. Same drain as a human, 10 dice.

Bod 5
Agi 3
Rea 3
Str 7
Cha 2
Int 5
Log 3
Will 5

he focused on summoning, utility spells and melee combat with his staff. good range and DV

[UmaroVI]

You can also go with a Logic tradition and use Cerebral Boosters. Logic 4 at chargen, Cerebral Boosters 3 (probably after chargen - it's only 30000Y), some defensive cyberware, and you're set.

Fomori is blatantly better than most other metavariants, and is one of the best reasons to be a troll; there's no equivalently good metavariant of humans, orks, or elves

[JoeNapalm]

I have a Fomori Occult Investigator (not based on the in-book Archetype, just a detective that uses magic) that seems to be doing quite well.

The nice thing is that he's not squishy. Recently had a brawl where he got separated and surrounded...a tree-hugger or runty sherpa would have gone down under a pile of bad guys, but my Troll just beat people silly with his walking stick (Weapon Focus), straightened his jacket and top hat, and went about his business.

If you're going to try to mini-max, or have to have the Most Efficient and Effective Build EVAR! then you're probably not going to be happy, but he's a blast to play.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Zilfer]

I have a Fomori Occult Investigator (not based on the in-book Archetype, just a detective that uses magic) that seems to be doing quite well.

The nice thing is that he's not squishy. Recently had a brawl where he got separated and surrounded...a tree-hugger or runty sherpa would have gone down under a pile of bad guys, but my Troll just beat people silly with his walking stick (Weapon Focus), straightened his jacket and top hat, and went about his business.

If you're going to try to mini-max, or have to have the Most Efficient and Effective Build EVAR! then you're probably not going to be happy, but he's a blast to play.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

And thus I qoute Wormtail

"I told you to grab the wizards staff!!!!"

That would have been awesome to see i'm sure.

[JoeNapalm]

I have a Fomori Occult Investigator (not based on the in-book Archetype, just a detective that uses magic) that seems to be doing quite well.

The nice thing is that he's not squishy. Recently had a brawl where he got separated and surrounded...a tree-hugger or runty sherpa would have gone down under a pile of bad guys, but my Troll just beat people silly with his walking stick (Weapon Focus), straightened his jacket and top hat, and went about his business.

If you're going to try to mini-max, or have to have the Most Efficient and Effective Build EVAR! then you're probably not going to be happy, but he's a blast to play.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

And thus I qoute Wormtail

"I told you to grab the wizards staff!!!!"

That would have been awesome to see i'm sure.

I think you just mixed JK Rowling with JRR Tolkien, but thanks. 

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[BSOD]

I have a Fomori Occult Investigator (not based on the in-book Archetype, just a detective that uses magic) that seems to be doing quite well.

The nice thing is that he's not squishy. Recently had a brawl where he got separated and surrounded...a tree-hugger or runty sherpa would have gone down under a pile of bad guys, but my Troll just beat people silly with his walking stick (Weapon Focus), straightened his jacket and top hat, and went about his business.

If you're going to try to mini-max, or have to have the Most Efficient and Effective Build EVAR! then you're probably not going to be happy, but he's a blast to play.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

And thus I qoute Wormtail

"I told you to grab the wizards staff!!!!"

That would have been awesome to see i'm sure.

I think you just mixed JK Rowling with JRR Tolkien, but thanks. 

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

I think that would be the worst cross-over I'd ever read at least twice.

[EDJohnson]

There is absolutely no reason for Trolls to not be mages. Survivability, beefiness, and intimidation alone make them fantastic mages. I would also point out that one of the main characters in the SR4 novels IS a Troll Mage.

Yes, drain is a slight weakness, but you can even that up with Edge if nothing else. But I would way rather a troll mage for backup than a scrawny elf. At least the troll can take a bullet or two before he starts crying about not being able to cast 

[Tsuzua]

Yes, drain is a slight weakness, but you can even that up with Edge if nothing else. But I would way rather a troll mage for backup than a scrawny elf. At least the troll can take a bullet or two before he starts crying about not being able to cast 

Drain isn't that bad of a weakness actually.  Since trolls get no penalty to intuition, they can use one of the intuition traditions in Street Magic and Digital Grimoire.

[corax]

i've actually currently got 2 troll mages in concurrent campaigns atm.

troll 1 is the first mage i ever built so is really not very good. but he summons alright and can throw some buffs out before taking potshots with his crossbow.

troll 2 is a combat monster who uses his magic to augment him, he tosses combat spells out till he is starting to fill up on stun, then he gets in with his axe

The reason they are trolls? we use the optional rules for net hits adding to drain so once they start to take a hit from drain they can still get stuck in and murder people.

[UmaroVI]

Yes, drain is a slight weakness, but you can even that up with Edge if nothing else. But I would way rather a troll mage for backup than a scrawny elf. At least the troll can take a bullet or two before he starts crying about not being able to cast 

Drain isn't that bad of a weakness actually.  Since trolls get no penalty to intuition, they can use one of the intuition traditions in Street Magic and Digital Grimoire.

Trolls get -1 intuition.

[Tsuzua]

Trolls get -1 intuition.

Dang, you're right.  Yeah then it's Int or Logic for Trolls.

[baronspam]

Trolls get -1 intuition.

Dang, you're right.  Yeah then it's Int or Logic for Trolls.

When compaired to a human (the "average" metatype, for whatever that is worth) Trolls have one less dice in their drain resistance pool if they softcap their stats (9 instead of the human's 10 at softcap).  Elves do better with charisma traditions and Dwarves rock all around because of higher willpower. 

Its not crippling.  Its a slight disadvantage,and you get some compensation in other areas.