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Character Creation process

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digeridork

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« on: <08-26-11/2245:50> »
I might be starting a game for some of the guys in my regular gaming group that want to get a little Shadowrun on the side. They are not really familiar with the system or the setting and aren't really the biggest proponents of finding time to read the material. We play Pathfinder and they've learned the default setting through game play and they will probably learn about Shadowrun this way as well.

My problem is that these guys are going to make characters soon and when I was rereading the character creation section it seemed like going into character creation with a good idea or a plan would be the best route. As the Ever Helpful GM™ I want to be able to give my players a resource for designing their characters and was curious about the process others use to come up with their character.

I did a Google search for a character questionnaire and came up with a few generic lists and some setting specific ones that I plan on trying to incorporate and I've tried to organize the process I use for creating characters to little avail.

So to create some sort of document to aid my players I was thinking that I might ask the community if you share the process you use for generating a character concept and if you had any ideas for what kinds of questions should be included in a character questionnaire.

Thanks in advance.

Xarin

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« Reply #1 on: <08-26-11/2252:42> »
The SR Companion has a handy list of 20 questions to get the ball rolling on character backgrounds.  It also gives some broad "roles" characters can fill and some general ideas on what directions you can take to fill them.  Typically I pick 1 primary role and one secondary role to dabble in.  One is generally combat focused, the other is anything not directly or specifically fighting.  Then I always have something to do in the game, whatever part we're on at the time.

You could also give them a leg up on things like team building just by having them start out as a bunch of gangers moving up in the world.  Or buddies starting a 'private eye / security / 'consulting' firm'.  Y'know, something other then a fixer throwing random goonies together.

UmaroVI

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« Reply #2 on: <08-26-11/2304:07> »
Check the link in my sig. In addition to using the Archetypes "off the shelf," you can also use them as examples or modify them as you see fit.

Cass100199

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« Reply #3 on: <08-26-11/2309:34> »
I don't force the players to do this, but I imply that the story should be created first. Once the character is done, and I'm reviewing, I start asking "where did this come from". I tend to house rule a lot of things with the idea of i'll be reasonable if the players are. For instance, I may not make the characters buy basic gear, as I expect they'll have it. But in that vein, if you show up with all the uber-duper cool weapons, that violates my reasonable rule.
You can't tell me what toys I can play with.

FastJack

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« Reply #4 on: <08-26-11/2310:07> »
I may sound like a corporate shill, but I don't actually get paid for anything I say, so I'm not really.

But, if you have access, I highly recommend Hero Labs, just because it helps with the math of character creation. (Not too mention they are also the official CharGen software for the Pathfinder Society, so there's that extra bonus). It can get a bit expensive if you start buying every bell and whistle but, for now, they are only offering the Core Rulebook for Shadowrun.

baronspam

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« Reply #5 on: <08-27-11/1100:33> »
The most important thing for making shadowrun characters is to define the charcter before putting pen to paper in any mechanical way.  What is the character good at?  What is their role in the group?  What mechanical elements do they need (skills, powers, spells, implants, whatever) to fill that role?  If you are building 400 point characters you can end up with people with elite skill, but you can't be a one man army.  Discourage generalists, and encourage people to know what they want when they start.  Help them pick the things that are core to filling out their character concept, buy them first, and then fill in the rest with remaining  points.

Also, set out some guidelines about power levels and dice pools, and stats.  Try to keep people roughly in the same neighborhood in terms of dicepools.  Are  you expecting min/maxed characters who have an 18+ dice pool in their primary skill, or is a 14 or 15 enough for your core compentency? Are dumpstats of 1 acceptable, or do you consider a 1 vastly undeveloped and a huge weakness?   Either standard is fine, but what you don't want is the combat specalist who has 13 dice with his best attack next to the face who has 14 with his combat secondary focus.

Please note, the sample characters in the book are crap, for the most part.  I would not suggest using them as examples or pre-made characters. 

Umaro's link above goes to some characters he made as sample characters for Missions games.  They are at the other end of the scale from the sample characters is SR4A.  While there is much to be learned from studying them in terms of technique, they are highly, highly optimized.  Not a complaint or criticism, but know what you are getting.  They were designed to let a new player sit in and be effective next to experienced players with experienced characters.  Even if they exceed the power level of the campaign you are considering they are helpful for looking at good ways to put together armor, comlinks, etc. 

farothel

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« Reply #6 on: <08-27-11/1114:00> »
I would also suggest once you have the concept and you start the number crunching, to use an excel sheet.  I think there are a couple of links on the forum for sheets with all the options programmed in.  That way you can think a concept, start filling in the sheet and all the calculations behind are done automatically.  I use it for all my character developments and it's really fast.  Especially since shadowrun isn't the easiest system the generate characters in (although not the most difficult either).
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
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digeridork

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« Reply #7 on: <08-27-11/1337:06> »
Thanks this is a lot of good information.

Right now I am looking at different ideas to help my players generate character concepts. Since they're so new to the system and the setting I'll be starting with a clean slate with pretty much everything so that's a plus. I am putting together a good list of things I want my players to think about before they put pencil to character sheet and I'll share it when I finally finish it.


Critias

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« Reply #8 on: <08-27-11/1923:39> »
For a new-ish GM running a new-ish group of players, I really think Runner's Toolkit could be a big help.  It's got PACKS (a modular character creation system) that could help get the ball rolling, compiled gear tables from several of the core gear books (a handy resource), some cool maps (that are dry-erase friendly) for once game play starts, a ready-to-go adventure, a GM screen (always nice), and some very nice hand outs that would be perfect for a new group (give the combat guy the list of combat mods, the hacker the handout with the electronics stuff, etc).

John Shull

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« Reply #9 on: <08-29-11/0138:12> »
Having a basis for the character: Laura Croft, Dexter, Sherlock Holmes, Jackie Chan, Buffy Summers, Harry Dresden, or any other famous template is a great first step as you will have focus on what they do and don't do.  Many characters have problems accepting limitations of a character but it is much easier to say a Physical Adept Vampire Slayer based on Buffy can Thump, moves really well, and has some great contacts but she does not drive well, lies and cons worse, has no more defenses to magic than a normal and is desperately trying to outgrow her infatuations with the bad boy element of her species enemy.  It just goes down easier in a package usually.  Also understanding what the player is trying to run makes running them in game many times easier.  From the agreed on template generate your character and have fun.  If it comes to giving them a few extra points to make the character feel right just do it.  Its better to upgrade the scale in the adventure than explain why the character is missing key abilities or has lackluster major ones they expect them to have. 
Opportunities multiply as they are seized.  --Sun Tzu

Cantor

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« Reply #10 on: <08-31-11/1548:21> »
  Discourage generalists,

Why?

baronspam

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« Reply #11 on: <08-31-11/1914:15> »
  Discourage generalists,

Why?

The mechanics of shadowrun character creation, especially the offical build point system, really emphasises building specialists.  Skills costs are the same per point from one to 6, but you don't have enough overall build points for tons of skills.  The most successful way, from a purely mechanical point of view, to make a shadowrun character is to pick a core skill/role, make that very high, and then pick one or two other things that the character is good at and make those moderatly high.  Jack of all trades characters tend to end up sucking at everything.  Its just the way the math works out. 

Now I am not saying you will only have two or three skills, but I am saying don't try to be good at everything.  Lets say you want to be a breaking and entereing expert.  Figure out what is really core to that.  Infiltration to sneak, hardware to deal with locks and security systems, a high agility stat, maybe locksmith (although with a high agilityand a good autopicker sometimes you can skip the skill.)  Maybe athletics to climb if you wan to be a second story man, and it also give you gymnastics to dodge with.  Throw on either pistols or automatics for a combat option and some perception and you are probably done.

The problems comes when you do that, but then decided that you should have some first aid, too.  And that demolitions sounds cool.  And if he knows demolitons how about some chemistry to make explosives. And I would really like to be able to fight hand to hand but thats more strength and then I need some implants for it.  And I would really like some social skills And. .. and... and...   By the time you find enough points for this your skills and stats are so diluted you can do alot of things, but you do tham all badly. 

It is often said that Shadowrun is a team sport.  Find a role on the team and make sure you can do your job well.  Find one or two other areas of overlap( a combat option, a social option, a skill that stands alone and synergizes with a stat you arleady have fairly high) and be able to do a bit there as well.  Everyone should be able to do some legwork, even if its just a few contacts and knowledge skills.  Everyone should be able to do something in a fight, even if its hide in the van and run a drone.  But overall the most common mistakes when first making characters is not having a clear focus and trying to be good at to many things.
« Last Edit: <08-31-11/1917:48> by baronspam »

Cantor

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« Reply #12 on: <09-01-11/0934:22> »
Thanks for answering. I agree with you largely, but I think that experienced players can have just as much fun with any type of character. My favorite character of all time was a generalist. So he had 8 Edge, he still had the most bizarre set of skills.

baronspam

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« Reply #13 on: <09-01-11/1038:10> »
Thanks for answering. I agree with you largely, but I think that experienced players can have just as much fun with any type of character. My favorite character of all time was a generalist. So he had 8 Edge, he still had the most bizarre set of skills.

Fun and mechanically effective are two different things.

Because the build point system is so open ended the important thing really is to keep the characters roughly in the same ballpark.  In some games a dice pool of 12 is amazing.  In others you need 15 or 16 dice to even be considered competent and doing your job with your main skill, and 20 to be elite.  The gm challenge to to make sure you don't get a combat character with 10 dice in their main attack next to a face who has 14 dice with his combat secondary.  Yes, there are some people who wouldn't care, but many people would.  You don't want to frustrate or alienate a new player with a character who is clearly less effective than the other characters at the table.

Cantor

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« Reply #14 on: <09-01-11/1149:35> »
Fun and mechanically effective ARE two different things.

I like to think that Fun trumps Rules Lawyering every time. :)