[Pyromaster13]

I've been having this idea running around that was inspired by the picture in SR4 20th anniversary edition on page 121.  Where you have a super archer, who's shadowy and awesome, but is actually a well off person in real life.  Kind of like a bow-and-arrow-using batman that doesn't mind killing people.

Since it's essentially based on those concepts I was looking at the qualities of:
Trust Fund RatinPrivilegeddged Family Name
and Fame (city)

along with negative qualities like
SINer (to go with trust fund)
Bad Rep (Since he's known but it may not be good fame)

But obviously I'd like any suggestions on how to build the character otherwise,  at first I was thinking of going the regular Street Sam build, with muscle toner and augment to give him a nasty punch and deadly archery, but I was also wondering about possible options if I were to go an adept route (or maybe a little of both?). Of course I know he'd need high agility to land the hits, but since the damage of the bow also scales based on strength that also a bonus.

I was also considering giving him a decent chemistry skill (which I know people will tell me to drop for one reason or another).  But I was planning on actually ordering just nightshade (literally JUST the plant, which is perfectly legal for several chemfacs and a lower availiability than the drugs it makes and only has an R) then using chemistry to extract and create both the Drug "Atropine" and "Gamma-Scopolamine" since they both use different chemicals from the same plant.  Which can add a cheap and effective punch to my arrows and help keep up that (bad?) reputation I already have.

I've always wondered on a side note why bows aren't used alot in game however, the damage can actually scale up pretty high, and with enough strength (usually only feasible on a troll) that arrow can hit harder than a panzer, and if you have high archery and agility those net hits score you even more damage.  Is it the lack of armor penetration?  Going back to the damage, I just don't think any armor can easily stop 15P.  Any the cherry on top, they're completely legal to own, buy and carry without a license.

[Phylos Fett]

I think the Rating 6 limit on starting gear is the first thing to sour the deal on bows, coupled with the RoF.

[UmaroVI]

The things that really tank the archer:

1) Bow ratings got stealth errata'd to cap at 8. So the maximum DV base is 10 and bows can never do more than 12 DV, ever, because of the "maximum DV = 1.5 x rating" rule.

2) Bows are a simple to ready and then a simple to fire - and unlike throwing weapons, there's no Quick Draw type ability that lets you fix this.

The combination of these two makes bow-and-arrow a comedy option only.

[Phylos Fett]

The things that really tank the archer:

1) Bow ratings got stealth errata'd to cap at 8. So the maximum DV base is 10 and bows can never do more than 12 DV, ever, because of the "maximum DV = 1.5 x rating" rule.

That was sneaky, and not exactly easy to find.

[UmaroVI]

So as not to just post to crush your dreams - you can make a similar sort of character who uses Throwing Weapons quite effectively. This does have the appeal of "using primitive weapons to asplode tanks" going for it, although it means that you are Captain Boomerang rather than Green Arrow. Check "Former Neoprimitive" in my sig for an example of how this type of character works.

[Thermo]

I don't think it's as bad as maybe it sounds.. if you can get up to 3 IP's, that still nothing to laugh at, in that you can effectively get out an arrow every second. If you put out 11P per shot, that's 33 damage per round. Just to put it in perspective, an Ares Predator pistol with EX ammo will put out 36 damage per round with 3 IP's, but will be easier to resist since your opponent would get twice as many damage resistance rolls, and it won't have nearly the same range. The whole point is that a bow and arrow is stealthy and legal, so while someone toting around a Panzer will be more damaging, they won't have a lot of the same advantages that a stealth character has. If your character is stealth-oriented, you'll likely be getting in the first shot, which may be enough to end the fight immediately. If there's a group, they probably won't even realize what's going on until you're already nocking your third arrow!

The other part of the character build that you've mentioned is that since you'll want to have strength 8 and as much agility as you can muster, you'll be a natural candidate for both athletics and melee skills. So you can truly be a batman character if you wanted. If you take the adept or bioware route, you'll be able to go pretty much anywhere you want and bring you weapon with you, since a bow is legal all of the time.

[Cantor]

I'd make an Adept archer. You can have absurd attack dice with Improved Ability. Be an Ork. Use SnS rounds. Unconcious enemies are as good as dead ones most of the time. Or use injection rounds. Have a good infiltration skill (or be a mystic adept with Improved Invisibility) and they'll never see you coming.

[Cantor]

Also, people who tell you NOT to make the character you want aren't helpful.

[Dr. Meatgrinder]

2) Bows are a simple to ready and then a simple to fire - and unlike throwing weapons, there's no Quick Draw type ability that lets you fix this.

The Quick Draw adept power (SM, 179) includes missile weapons (in fact, "draw any weapon, not just pistols"), and I'd have a harder time denying this to drawing an arrow than to drawing a bow.

[baronspam]

I don't think it's as bad as maybe it sounds.. if you can get up to 3 IP's, that still nothing to laugh at, in that you can effectively get out an arrow every second. If you put out 11P per shot, that's 33 damage per round. Just to put it in perspective, an Ares Predator pistol with EX ammo will put out 36 damage per round with 3 IP's, but will be easier to resist since your opponent would get twice as many damage resistance rolls, and it won't have nearly the same range. The whole point is that a bow and arrow is stealthy and legal, so while someone toting around a Panzer will be more damaging, they won't have a lot of the same advantages that a stealth character has. If your character is stealth-oriented, you'll likely be getting in the first shot, which may be enough to end the fight immediately. If there's a group, they probably won't even realize what's going on until you're already nocking your third arrow!

The other part of the character build that you've mentioned is that since you'll want to have strength 8 and as much agility as you can muster, you'll be a natural candidate for both athletics and melee skills. So you can truly be a batman character if you wanted. If you take the adept or bioware route, you'll be able to go pretty much anywhere you want and bring you weapon with you, since a bow is legal all of the time.

Bows are legal, but they are also conspicuous and threatening.  You won't get arrested for taking one through customs, but walking into a high security zone with a bow and a quiver of arrows will certainly get some attention.  They might not be able to call Knight Errant, but you can end up with security team in your back pocket or a rotodrone five feet over your head until you clear the zone.

For the mechanical reasons Umaro outlined above bows are suboptimal.  That doesn't mean they are terrible, just suboptimal.  If you are playing in a more casual or lower power game they are probably fine.  In a higher power game you probably don't want to make them your main focus if you care about being "competitive" with the other characters.

On the other hand, much like sniper rifles, bows might be something you know how to do without being your primary focus.  You may have a niche situation where you need more range than thrown weapons and if you have a neoprimitive/luddite/ninja theme going with a bow isn't a terrible choice.  But a character who can use a bow well can probably use thrown weapons/melee better at close and medium ranges.  If the bad guys are in range, you will likely do better with your katana, cyberspurs, and belt of throwing weapons.

[The Big Peat]

What baronspam said. I'd like to thank him for ninja'ing me before I even started to type.

Except to add that while the bow might be completely legal without licence, most arrow types aren't. Only normal and screamer heads don't require a licence at least. So, you're still going to need a licence, and the police of whichever description still have an excuse for stopping you and shaking you down - checking whether you carry restricted arrows, and whether you have a licence.

Umaro, could point me to the page for "maximum DV = 1.5 x rating" rule please?

[UmaroVI]

2) Bows are a simple to ready and then a simple to fire - and unlike throwing weapons, there's no Quick Draw type ability that lets you fix this.

The Quick Draw adept power (SM, 179) includes missile weapons (in fact, "draw any weapon, not just pistols"), and I'd have a harder time denying this to drawing an arrow than to drawing a bow.

I disagree - I don't think it, as written, lets you get around the limitation of needing to spend an action readying. Granted, some GMs might rule it does, so I guess check with whoever's running. If they let you use Quickdraw to fire 2 arrows a pass, it's much more feasible to be an archer and it's just moderately suboptimal instead of really bad.

The 1.5xRating rule is right under arrows on SR4A 315.

[Critias]

You can still dish out some pretty sick damage with a bow, and if your whole character idea is to be a guy that looks like that picture, who cares what's "optimal?"  All that matters if that you like your character. 

With augmented strength you'll still have a very reasonable range and damage, there are some gadget-y arrows that I dislike on principle but that can be quite handy in-game, and if you and your local gaming crew think it's a cool character, it's a cool character.  Guys using phrases like "really bad" or whatever are grossly overstating it.  Archery can still be quite nasty, and it's certainly no worse than someone using any other single-shot weapon.

You can also more than make up for any low damage concerns with the software in War! that lets you combine damage from arrows and other arcing projectile weapons, on the off chance your GM is worried your damage output is low and thinks it really needs the boost.

I'd consider Distinctive Style, personally, if I were out to make a high-tech archer in a Shadowrun game, but that's gonna come down to a conversation between you and your GM.

[Jaffer]

2) Bows are a simple to ready and then a simple to fire - and unlike throwing weapons, there's no Quick Draw type ability that lets you fix this.

The Quick Draw adept power (SM, 179) includes missile weapons (in fact, "draw any weapon, not just pistols"), and I'd have a harder time denying this to drawing an arrow than to drawing a bow.

I disagree - I don't think it, as written, lets you get around the limitation of needing to spend an action readying. Granted, some GMs might rule it does, so I guess check with whoever's running. If they let you use Quickdraw to fire 2 arrows a pass, it's much more feasible to be an archer and it's just moderately suboptimal instead of really bad.

Take the 'Martial Arts' quality, Krav Maga has an option to ready a weapon as a free action.  not quite 2 arrows an IP, but it increases your outbound arrows by 50%.

[Pyromaster13]

2) Bows are a simple to ready and then a simple to fire - and unlike throwing weapons, there's no Quick Draw type ability that lets you fix this.

The Quick Draw adept power (SM, 179) includes missile weapons (in fact, "draw any weapon, not just pistols"), and I'd have a harder time denying this to drawing an arrow than to drawing a bow.

I disagree - I don't think it, as written, lets you get around the limitation of needing to spend an action readying. Granted, some GMs might rule it does, so I guess check with whoever's running. If they let you use Quickdraw to fire 2 arrows a pass, it's much more feasible to be an archer and it's just moderately suboptimal instead of really bad.

Take the 'Martial Arts' quality, Krav Maga has an option to ready a weapon as a free action.  not quite 2 arrows an IP, but it increases your outbound arrows by 50%.

I've wondering about that actually, but I'm not sure that martial arts bonus applies to arrows persay.  And if it does apply to all weapons it's additional bonus of "Take aim" is now a free action can be a nasty bonus.

But going on Umaro's case, say I took both quick draw and nimble fingers adept powers, so you're implying that I can load with accuracy and no error several magnum rounds into a revolver in less than a second, and can draw and ready a complicated assault rifle both as free actions... but I can't draw and nock a single arrow in a single action simply because none of those powers mention arrows?

But continuing on to my second question from my first post.  Is it perfectly feasible to have a high chemistry skill then create your own nightshade based drugs from the plant.  The book itself states that both the toxins mentioned use different receptor molecules and binders from the same plant, so theoretically a single plant can give a single dose of both drugs.  Or is that section at the mercy of whatever GM says in his game?