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The Greatness of Cyber Limbs (and why I can't figure it out)

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LostProxy

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« on: <09-07-11/1844:30> »
So I know there are some cool things you can do with cyber limbs but beyond sticking a radar sensor in them to get save me some essence I can't really figure them out. Could someone be kind enough to show me what you guys are doing to get so much out of them?

Tsuzua

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« Reply #1 on: <09-07-11/1943:24> »
This is fairly open ended question so this is going to be long.  First off, you have to be familiar with how cyberlimbs and their attributes work.  Tooting my own horn, here's my explanation on how that works.  Some of the following debate does require GM arbitration since some guidelines are vague as all hell.  However, I'm going with stuff that is quite reasonable to infer and suggested by the writing so I don't think what I'm saying is too outlandish.  But it's a disclaimer nonetheless.

Assuming you understand how cyberlimb attributes work, the reason why cyberlimbs are so good is that that they are cheap attribute boosts.  Since they are derived wholly independent of your current attributes, you can get away with fairly low attributes and use the points elsewhere. 

For example, let's say you're a 4 Body 2 Strength 2 Agility starting Human runner.  At creation, you get the following cyberlimb, Obvious Customized Right Cyberlimb Avail: 12 27000Y Body: 6 Strength: 5 Agility: 6
With that, you also buy Body Enhancement 3 600Y Armor 2 600Y Agility Enhancement 3 600Y

The final attributes of the limb are Body 6(9) Strength 5 Agility: 6(9). 

With this new arm, you go down to the range and get a smartlinked pistol and use it one-handed.  Let's say you have Pistols 4 as well.

With a normal meat arm, you'll be rolling 8 dice (Agility 2 + Pistols 4 + Smartgun 2).
With your cyberarm, you're rolling 15 dice (Agility 9 + Pistols 4 + Smartgun 2).  A seven dice difference!

You can one-hand firearms up to SMGs in size.  Depending on your GM for two-handed weapons, you likely roll 5 dice (if your two arms average) or you stay at 2 (if this requires careful coordination).  I prefer the former averaging choice, but you have argument either way.  If you're using Strength grants RC, you might want Strength Enhancement 1 to get 6 Strength and +1 RC. 

Due to the averaging for whole body tests such as damage, you get to roll 5 dice from body instead of the normal 4.  The math is (Right Arm 9 + Left Arm 4 + Torso 4 + Right Leg 4 + Left Leg 4) / 5 = 25/5 = 5.  Umaro has this averaged body count towards armor encumbrance which I think is reasonable (wearing stuff usually doesn't require careful coordination) so I will be factoring that in as well.

Therefore, you now roll 5 dice for Body instead of 4 as well being able to wear 2 extra points of armor due to higher encumbrance limit.  In addition to this, you get 2 points of armor that stacks with everything and doesn't count towards encumbrance (remember encumbrance only applies to worn armor not innate armor).  This means you roll 5 extra dice to resist damage.   

In addition to this, you get some other minor beanies like +1 physical damage track and 3P punches.  The arm I provided also has 5 capacity left over for you to add stuff.  I like cyberarm gyromounts personally, but they're F so you might want to avoid them.

So for 28600Y at character creation, you get +7 dice for shooting people, +5 dice to resist damage, and a host of minor beanies.  It's a pretty good deal.  Basically you peel, lick and stick a cyberlimb onto a character to make them in decent combat character.
« Last Edit: <09-07-11/1945:47> by Tsuzua »

UmaroVI

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« Reply #2 on: <09-07-11/2231:33> »
Tsuzua covered the whys. For some examples of what you can do with them, look in my sig at the Ronin, Negotiator, Generalist, or Mercenary Rigger for "lick-n-stick" limbs, and the Bad Enough Trog for robocop.

Joush

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« Reply #3 on: <09-08-11/0421:21> »
Unless I'm wrong you can also buy cheap cyberarmor that stacks and doesn't count to encumbrance and put almost any goodies that have a capacity cost in there. The real advantage is that even a great, customized cyberarm is dirt cheap.  A Custom cyberarm with the best attributes you can buy to start only runs 27,000. (Starts at 3 in all attributes and you have 8 points to put into it.)

Quick question, do you multiply the full cost of a custom cyberlimb by the modifier for Alpha-Beta-Delta wear, or the base cost?


UmaroVI

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« Reply #4 on: <09-08-11/0623:00> »
Full cost. All the enhancements get priced up too.

Joush

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« Reply #5 on: <09-08-11/0631:44> »
That's a pretty surprising  ruling. While customization's ambiguous enhancement, in SR4A, is not.

The way I've seen it is that you do not have to buy enhancements at a higher grade, and there is never a point in doing so. (They cost Capacity, not Essence, and so would receive no benefits from being Alpha+ quality anyway.

Is there a page reference or something for that?

UmaroVI

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« Reply #6 on: <09-08-11/0638:34> »
SR4A 313, "Cyberware and Bioware grades," 2nd paragraph.

Joush

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« Reply #7 on: <09-08-11/0828:09> »
Thanks, I stand corrected.

LostProxy

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« Reply #8 on: <09-08-11/1625:33> »
Thanks for the comprehensive reply  :) I've been looking at cheap ways to boost my combat hacker to more effective dice pools in combat and this could be it. Do you really need exotic ranged weapons to fire a cyber gun? Sheesh, I may have to pick that up as a skillsoft then. I'm not paying karma for such a niche skill.

Kontact

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« Reply #9 on: <09-09-11/0131:19> »
A cyber gun really is a waste.  It takes up huge amounts of capacity, is forbidden, and sucks for mods.

Just carry a gun and use the arm to hold it.


Additional cyber fun, capacity items.  There are plenty of things you can put in a limb instead of your body and save essence.  Radar is nothing compared to a nanohive.  Also, if you get a used capacity item for half the cost, it doesn't change anything except that it can crap out an a critical glitch. 

Tsuzua

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« Reply #10 on: <09-09-11/0742:48> »
A cyber gun really is a waste.  It takes up huge amounts of capacity, is forbidden, and sucks for mods.

Honestly what kills the cyber gun is the Exotic Ranged Weapon requirement.  It isn't too hard to make an usable machine pistol cybergun with modifications and SnS.  It's implied that cyberguns aren't detected by MADs with the line (SR4A 344), "To meet their stealth requirements, most of their parts are built from non-metallic compounds, while the remaining metallic parts are incorporated into the (cyber) arm’s structure."  So a cybergun could have been nice if your game has a lot of pat downs and MADs. 


Mäx

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« Reply #11 on: <09-10-11/1251:44> »
So a cybergun could have been nice if your game has a lot of pat downs and MADs.
And zero cyberscanners, witch is probably a pretty rare situation.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Tsuzua

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« Reply #12 on: <09-10-11/1256:20> »
So a cybergun could have been nice if your game has a lot of pat downs and MADs.
And zero cyberscanners, witch is probably a pretty rare situation.

To be fair, if cyberscanners aren't easy to disable or avoid or as rare as hen's teeth, you're really are just going to be playing Magicrun. 

Solomon

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« Reply #13 on: <09-10-11/2317:55> »
Is there a way to "shield" the contents of your cyberarm like you can shield a smuggling compartment on a vehicle so that cyberscanners can tell you have a cyberarm but not that you have a gyromount or cybergun or other forbidden addition to the arm?

UmaroVI

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« Reply #14 on: <09-10-11/2322:24> »
Cyberware scanners find everything. They are not actually cyberware scanners - they are millimeter wave radar, and they can find any and all items, including plastic guns, knives, commlinks, etc; there's nothing you can do except hack them.

 

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