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Shadows Within Shadows, an Inception conversion [Brainstorming; ideas needed]

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Kallisti

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« on: <09-14-11/0520:04> »
Shadows within shadows
Your mind is the scene of the plagiarism crime

So for the five of you who haven't realized yet, this is my attempt to model Extraction a la Inception in Shadowrun Fourth Edition. You five: spoilers abound; go watch Inception first, it's a brilliant film.

And it's perfect for Shadowrun--action heist, elaborate plan, cutthroat corporate maneuvering, all the makings of a good run. Since I want very badly to play such a run with my group, I decided to take on this project. Besides, with potentially as many as three dream layers, each with a material, an astral, and a matrix, the possibilities for elaborate plans that go horribly wrong--or horribly, horribly right--are endless.

At the moment, it's all very much broad-strokes, brainstorming phase, that kind of thing. I don't have any definite rules yet. That said, I do at least have a good idea of things that need modeled:

  • Architecture-for obvious reasons. Currently I'm thinking a pool of points used to purchase properties (ie size, depth) and structures (ranging from simple cheap walls and roads to expensive Penrose stairs), with the size of the pool based on a combination of a skill check, a quality, and the amount of time invested in planning. I'm less sure how to handle knowledge of the layout, though--the projections would be NPCs, so the GM can't really know the layout. And not all of the players will, either. So let the players who will know the layout make plans, but actually build on the fly? Won't they then have an unfair ability to adapt? And how do we handle changing the dream?
  • Chemistry-a lot of people miss it the first time through, but it's confirmed that the compound used determines depth, 'clarity of connection between dreamers' (we never find out what exactly this means), stability, possible exit methods, and--importantly--the ratio of realtime to dreamtime. I'm again thinking a pool of points determined by a combination of skill check, quality, and invested resources. This is much simpler since it lacks the logistical issues of architecture.
  • Stats in the Dream-it's obvious that some things carry over; for example, Cobb and Arthur really are talented fighters and that talent applies in the dream, but how do you handle such things as morphing like Eames, or the ability to alter the dream on the fly? Currently I'm leaning towards having a set of qualities, 'spells', etc. that only work in the dream--so Eames has a quality that allows him to forge identities in the dream.
  • The mechanics of Dreamshare-specifically, kicks, effects of events on one level on the next down, and Limbo. The film isn't entirely consistent here--if they're so sedated they need to be kicked on both level N and level N+1 to kick to level N, how did they escape back to reality at the end of the job? They had most of a week to go on Level 1 before time was up--did we just timeskip over it, and if so how did they survive the sub-security? If you can just kill yourself to escape Limbo, and you know you're in Limbo at least first, why is it so hard to escape? If Cobb stayed to find Saito, how come Saito aged and Cobb didn't? I don't fault the movie for these things--it'd be the wrong move to let the exact mechanics of dreamshare interfere with telling a good story--but we have to have consistent answers.

Other stuff I'm planning--magic and cybernetics related to dreamshare (for example, a cranial implant that alters the layout of dreams in which you're the subject as a booby trap for extractors, or a spell that increases or decreases the aggressiveness of the projections), setting details (Cobol Engineering, etc), a sample adventure, types of run (extraction, inception, retrieving a forgotten idea, acting as couriers of sensitive messages, terrifying and harassing a target to the point of self-harm or permanent mental damage, delivering threats or blackmail without leaving evidence, the entertaining implications of someone studying your totem without your knowledge, and so much more)...


The setting

By default, Shadows within Shadows is set after the events of the film, although not a whole lot has changed about extraction--after all, the team can't exactly tell people they've successfully performed inception, as making it public would raise some very awkward questions for Mr. Saito, and possibly result in Robert Fischer challenging the business decisions that dissolved Fischer Morrow on the grounds that they were in effect made under duress.

Corporations:

Headquarters: San Francisco, California Free State

COBOL Engineering is a relatively new player in the politics of the AAA corporations, but not to be underestimated. COBOL's connections with several world governments have allowed them to expand rapidly and stirred up vast amounts of paranoia about them--many runners refuse to work for COBOL, between the rumors and COBOL's reputation for ruthless disposal of inconvenient or incompetent shadowrunners. The company's claim to fame is its military contracts--notably, Project Somnacin in the UCAS and, if rumor is to be believed, equivalent projects with several foreign governments. COBOL manufactures the PASIV devices and Somnacin vials used by extractors, although many teams manufacture one or both themselves, whether from a desire to make specific alterations or simply fear of corporate tracking. The majority of COBOL's budget, however, goes towards dreamshare R&D--that, and solidifying their hold over the dreamshare technology market, whether through legal business maneuvers or the use of deniable assets. Despite their focus on the dreamshare market, COBOL, like most megacorps, maintains plenty of disparate interests--energy infrastructure in underdeveloped parts of the world, pharmaceuticals, construction, even entertainment. The company maintains a strong presence in numerous major cities, especially in Africa and the California Free State, allowing them to harry runners who have earned their ire, but the logistical strain of maintaining such a wide sphere of influence often leads to failures of communication within the company.

Upcoming: Proclus Global (canon), Page, Miles & Cobb Subconscious Consulting (not so much)

Zilfer

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« Reply #1 on: <09-14-11/1927:34> »
Curiously I just had the odd thought of what if the person didn't believe in "magic" if a wizard used magic in the dream wouldn't it make it unrealistic? though it's really hard to tell what's real in a dream anyways. I've only ever realized I was in a dream once. o.O' let me tell you that doesn't happen every day... err... night.

Sounds like a fun shadow run, though to counter balance the changing the environment on the fly I'd say have the NPC's react to the person changing like they did when the girl was first reconstructing the one dream. Also if the character's have a haunted history or anything like that perhaps have them show up in the dream, might be fun to add a little tention.

<.<

Further more! Will the non magic users have "spells" where they can "summon" up a grenade launcher?

"You shouldn't be afraid to dream a little bigger darling."

:D
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

Kallisti

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« Reply #2 on: <09-14-11/2223:47> »
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts! :) I tried to start this thread on GitP and I got nada.

I figure the subject or dreamer not believing in magic would muck up the ambient mana conditions--haven't read the rules for that, but I know they exist because I had to read the cyberzombie rules because one of my shadowrunners wanted to make him  ProtoMan as his pregen.

Eventually, I plan to have actual, codified rules for the hostility of the projections. Currently, I'm planning to model the dream similarly to the Matrix--Projections are basically IC. That's mostly a quick and dirty hack, though, because we start the campaign the day after tomorrow and I have six pregens to make. (The party so far consists of ProtoMan, Soundwave the Decepticon, Inspector Gadget, a troll PhysAd who kills things as the chemist, a Native-American mage who *loathes* it when people just assume he's a shaman of some sort, and Eames as the Architect. It's gonna be...interesting...to say the least.)

I figure characters will have a certain pool of points reserved exclusively for the dream--so say 400 BP to build your character as normal and 50-100 BP for things that only work in the dream--and that any nuyen they buy with that pool becomes, essentially, a pool of equipment points: whenever they establish a new identity, they can buy their kit, and leave a little for surprises like the rocket launcher from hammerspace. It'd be sort of obnoxious to buy all that gear (takes a while, especially since you'd potentially be picking new cyber/bio based on the essence hole from your waking-world implants), so they'd have to do it during the planning phase and you'd have to keep the surprises reserve small, but it'd work. I think.

Zilfer

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« Reply #3 on: <09-15-11/1430:19> »
Sounds fun to say the least, though I must say they don't want the target to realize they are dreaming AND get caught. <.< that probably wouldn't be fun. xD

Torcher for a week or so? XD
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

Kallisti

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« Reply #4 on: <09-15-11/1723:02> »
Of course, the whole thing with Robert Fischer implies that even if the target realized they were dreaming they forget the details when they wake up, depending on their level of training--sub-security or no, Fischer wasn't as heavily trained as Saito, probably, based on the fact that he never realized the first level was a dream and Cobb had to work pretty hard to get him to question the second. Plus he looked really shaken up in that scene in the bathroom where he nearly shoots himself to wake up. And then when he sees the team in the plane as he disembarks, he doesn't seem to recognize them.

First thing Saito does when he wakes up, on the other hand, is check his wrist for the needle mark from the PASIV.

So my interpretation is that even when the target realizes he was dreaming, if they're inexperienced they still might think it's all a dream when they wake up.

Even so, yes. That would be bad.

Not as bad as someone studying your totem without you realizing it, though. *Maniacal laugh*

Zilfer

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« Reply #5 on: <09-15-11/2022:53> »
The ending of it i'm still not sure I like better if he went back to his family finally or if that was a dream of him coming home.... <.< damn director! xD

Anyways, I also just had a though of if they managed to extract the data and get out do they really know they are out? :P the whole 13th floor or some movie with a name like that had alternate reality created by an alternate reality. Mind bending no? xD Just something you may be able to throw into the mix.

Curious however to see however where they need to seek the information. If what they are trying to extract isn't that valuable to the person it might not end up in a safe like in the movie. Be kind of interesting to see a twist like that. Something that was out in the open the whole time was what they were after and they tried so hard to get something to their employer and possibly them worthless. XD

That'd get my head spinning XD
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

Kallisti

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« Reply #6 on: <09-15-11/2138:12> »
The target doesn't value the information.

So he doesn't put in the safe.

That's...brilliant, actually.

As for the run, we start tomorrow. What I have so far:

Dunkelzahn, in his will, left a sizeable sum for whoever could examine a certain room in the Aztechnology Arcology. Ms. Johnson approaches the runners, claiming to believe someone did just that--according to 'her sources', two days ago the room was found broken into. There was nothing inside except a mainframe on one wall, with all of its programming stripped. All it can do is turn on and display a single screen--black, with the following message in white:
E
I
N
D

The runners need to get to Aztlan, get into the Arcology, figure out who broke into the room, find that person, get them into dreamshare, and then survive long enough to figure out what the hell happened.

The problem: They're being attacked on two fronts by the BBEG of the hour. EIND: Et In Nomini Deus.

Since two of the party members are completely mechanical, I figured the remnants of a rogue AI would make a good villain.

Also Tir Tairngire is involved somehow. I haven't decided how, but the Johnson is an elf and I want to use the elven spec-ops team from the book, because they're pretty much the only 'random enemy NPCs' from that section who'd have even a chance of hurting the party.

Sichr

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  • TOTÁLNÍ FAŠÍRKA ZMRDI !!!

Kallisti

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« Reply #8 on: <09-16-11/0350:34> »
Heh. That second frame of Dr. King is glorious.

Zilfer

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« Reply #9 on: <09-16-11/1415:21> »
Lol, that's interesting picture.
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

oliver 21

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« Reply #10 on: <09-16-12/0443:23> »
Hi, my name is Oliver and I am new to this forum. I think the idea of Inception style stuff in Shadowrun is just great. I`m going to post a whole load of stuff on a new topic page entitled `Shadow run rules in dream settings`. See you there.