[Mäx]

How did you achieve 24 dice to cast?

I didn't, as Umaro pointed out all modifiers are added after the split.
So Casting magic 2 + spellcasting 4 = 6 dice / 2 = 3 dice per spell + 2 from spec + 2 from mentor + 5 from power 5 spellcasting focus = 12 dice per spell

[Mason]

You split dice pools before modifiers, like power foci and specialization and mentor spirit.

So...my mage Mason has Skill 6 and Magic 8, for 14, divided by 2 for 7, plus 2 specialization for 9, plus power Foci to each one for 13, plus a Spirit service -can i use one service per spell or do i split the 8 from that?- either 17 or 21 dice per spell to multicast 2 spells, without Edge. With Edge in each one, he can achieve 21 or 25 dice with the Rule of Six.

Wow...I thought it was bad when I was rolling 28 (32 with Edge) dice for ONE spell. I feel kinda bad that I know this now...mages are easier to abuse than i thought...and they were already pretty bad...

[UmaroVI]

You can use one service per spell.

The chief limiter on multicasting is the drain - each spell adds 1 to the DV for all of the spells. It's still a very good option, though.

[Mason]

I can resist 6 or 7 Drain on an average Drain roll with my luck. that means two Force 8 Fireballs at once for me incurs 4+5+1 Drain each, or 10 each. Adding Edge to each Drain test should let me get away with only a couple of points of Drain for massive effectiveness. If I change the spell to Clout, one I use much more often, then it becomes 2+4+1 Drain apiece, for two hits of 7. Without Edge I can usually soak that much.

Using my new understanding of the rule, I could seriously break this with my current character.

But I won't unless it becomes Near Total Party Kill time again...you dig, Arc?

[Mäx]

Also remember that all the negative modifiers are also added after the split and especially indirect spell can have quite many of these.

You can use one service per spell.

Yeah, most definitely one service for each split pool you want to boost and also i at least would reguier a different spirit for each spell as the spell are cast simultaneously.

[Typath]

I play a Pixie, so I automatically get that the all important Astral Perception as a racial ability. I can also use the Invoking metamagic to have a task or guardian spirit endow me with astral form, producing an effect similar to Astral Projection. Thus I felt little need to spend the extra 5 BP to be a full magician instead of a mystic adapt.

Hi, I'm new to most of this and struggling to either play a magician or mystic adept. My main concern is that the mystic adept lack the ability to astral project. Can you please explain how this works and if the character can astral project normally.

[The Big Peat]

Without wishing to be too down on Max's idea, as its a cool one and it is workable enough, there are a few glitches.

A power 5 focus is illegal at chargen, and incredibly difficult to get hold of afterwards. Power 4 (still respectable) is available if you're allowing Restricted Gear, Power 2 otherwise (personally, 9 dice, even on two spells, is not overly respectable in my book - i don't know how overcasting works with split spells mind).

If you are going with a Power 4 focus, thats 25 buildpoints, that's a pretty impressive amount to be sinking into an option you don't use all the time. Throw in the Mentor Spirit and everything...

Doing the sums in my head, I can see a character doing what he says - and don't get me wrong, I like the general idea - but its not going to do an awful lot else. And you will certainly curse not having enough attribute points. You have specialised in having a lot of ways to kill people without being outstanding at any of them (except maybe melee combat).

I suspect the numbers would show that a augmented Mage, or even a bog-normal Mage using buff spells, would work better. Or the Mystic Adept who mainly uses buff spells. Which isn't exactly news, and doesn't mean Max's Mystic Adept version doesn't work.

[Lanlaorn]

Ok Max it doesn't actually work like that, the FAQ clarifies splitting dicepools and explicitly says that skill specializations and foci are part of the dice pool for multicasting and not modifiers, you can add the mentor spirit after splitting though..

How do you split a dice pool, such as using multiple weapons or casting multiple spells?

A dice pool is generally Skill (+ Specialization) + Attribute + anything else that adds directly to the dice pool but is not listed as a dice pool modifier (foci, certain augmentations, etc.). When splitting the pool the player divides these dice however they want, keeping at least one die for each test. Dice pool modifiers (from certain augmentations, darkness, smoke, etc.) are then applied to each test separately.

So your spellcasting dice pool is actually 2 (magic) 3 (spellcasting) 5 (power focus) 2 (specialization) with a modifier of +2 from the Mentor Spirit, so 14 dice for a single combat spell and 8 ( (2+3+5+2)/2 +2) for multicasting two spells.

And really think about how crazy it was splitting the pool your way, you took a dice pool of 5 (skill + attribute) and turned it into 12 x2? Under your splitting method you could turn it into 6 spells at 10 dice each, the only thing limiting you from exploding the amount of dice you roll to over a hundred is the drain.

[Mason]

Oh good. That means I was actually doing it right to begin with.

I was worried there for a second. :/

[UmaroVI]

The FAQ clarifies SR4 (which did not say to split the pool before modifiers), and predates SR4A (where it says that you DO split the pool before modifiers). Some people think SR4A takes precedence, some people think the FAQ takes precedence, it will never ever be settled.

[Critias]

The FAQ clarifies SR4 (which did not say to split the pool before modifiers), and predates SR4A (where it says that you DO split the pool before modifiers). Some people think SR4A takes precedence, some people think the FAQ takes precedence, it will never ever be settled.

Until the cage fight at GenCon, broadcast live on pay-per-view!

[Lanlaorn]

The FAQ clarifies SR4 (which did not say to split the pool before modifiers), and predates SR4A (where it says that you DO split the pool before modifiers). Some people think SR4A takes precedence, some people think the FAQ takes precedence, it will never ever be settled.

All that FAQ entry does is explain what is a dice pool modifier and what is part of the dice pool that must be split. So of course you split the dice pool and then apply modifiers. What is a dice pool? Skill, Attribute, specialization, foci, cyberware and anything else that doesn't explicitly call itself a dice pool modifier apparently. Mentor spirits kinda do

These bonuses and
penalties are called mentor spirit modifiers.

So I guess you get them after the split. I agree it kind of "ruins the fun" of multicasting since the only thing you'll be really doubling up on is visibility negative modifiers but you have to admit the other way is pretty crazy.

[UmaroVI]

I know that every other thread about this went in circles of "but the book says one thing and the faq says the other and the book was written later but the faq is the faq," but this time, by golly, we're going to all agree on how it works!

[Lanlaorn]

I've seen the threads you mean, lots of guys at dumpshock especially seem to love to argue the point, but it seems pretty clear to me, the FAQ doesn't even change or contradict anything, it simply clarifies the terms.

The only argument I've seen used with real conviction is "the FAQ doesn't count as rules" and well sure, it's not official errata but at this point my counter argument becomes "are you kidding me?".

[Mäx]

Without wishing to be too down on Max's idea, as its a cool one and it is workable enough, there are a few glitches.
A power 5 focus is illegal at chargen

Thats why it isn't a power focus 5, but power 5 spellcasting focus witch you can get with Restricted Gear.

Ok Max it doesn't actually work like that, the FAQ

You mean the FAQ that flat out contradict the book in many places, yeah i think it pretty save to ignore that piece of junk.

Especially as this is one of those entries:

Unless otherwise stated, any modifier mentioned is considered to be a dice pool modifier