[Rapier]

I am divided between building a Magician VS Mystic Adept.

Magician has better concentration and access to the planes. Mystic adept have flexibility and synergy. If I build a Mystic adept but use most (if not all) of my magic for mage and use some metamagic granted from initiation substitution for power points I think I might be better off.

So either there are some serious advantages to the astral plane, metas, I do not see.
Can you please "critique".

Thanks

[Mason]

A mystic Adept tends to have less overall power, and if you want him to be an effective mage replacement he will also need Astral perception, which costs 1 Power Point out of the gate. If you seek a more combat mage build they are great. Initiating for power points...that could get really nasty really quick, allowing a super mage who still casts great while having physical boosts.

My favorite Mystic Adept is the one with mystic Armor and Spell Resistance and combat sense powers, and everything else is all Magician abilities. Makes a super dodging/soaking/magic resisting mage for the group. Less squishy.

[Critias]

Mystic adepts will start "behind the curve" against magicians, pretty much every time.  How far behind that curve you want to be by spreading out power points, and how long you're willing to wait (and initiate) to catch up?  Well, that's what determines whether or not you're better off being a magician or an adept.

[Mason]

I usually don't recommend the Mystic Adept build unless you have a very strong idea of where you want him to end up. So-where do you want him to end up? What kinds of powers will he learn? What kind of spells will he sling?

[UmaroVI]

You should be a Magician if you plan for your main contribution to most situations to be spells and spirits.

You should be a Mystic Adept if you plan to be an Adept who augments their Adept abilities with magic.

What you want to not do is make a Mystic Adept who is half adept half Magician and tries to do nonsynergistic things like have a bunch of weapon skills, no buff spells, and a bunch of combat spells.

Check the link in my sig and look at the Transhuman Mystic for an example of a mystic adept.

In general, you want to make a Mystic Adept by figuring out a character that works well as an Adept, then figuring out how to back it up with magic. For example, make a B&E adept, then back it up with useful B&E spells. Or make a gun-combat-pew-pew adept, then back it up with buff spells. Or make a social adept, then back it up with Increase Charisma and mental manipulations.

[Mäx]

What you want to not do is make a Mystic Adept who is half adept half Magician and tries to do nonsynergistic things like have a bunch of weapon skills, no buff spells, and a bunch of combat spells.

What's wrong with that.
Guns and a weapon focus for normal situations and combat spells for when the excrement hits the rotatory oscillator.
Guns are just simpler and don't cause drain, but the ability to multicast a bunch of combat spell when the situation calls for it is pretty nice ace in the hole.

[Captain Karzak]

What's wrong with that.
Guns and a weapon focus for normal situations and combat spells for when the excrement hits the rotatory oscillator.
Guns are just simpler and don't cause drain, but the ability to multicast a bunch of combat spell when the situation calls for it is pretty nice ace in the hole.

And that's a great plan if have an unlimited BP/Karma budget. But in any other world you'll just suck forever if you try to branch out like that.

Anyway, I am playing a mystic adapt as my first ever SR4 character, and I had the same questions as the OP.

I play a Pixie, so I automatically get that the all important Astral Perception as a racial ability. I can also use the Invoking metamagic to have a task or guardian spirit endow me with astral form, producing an effect similar to Astral Projection. Thus I felt little need to spend the extra 5 BP to be a full magician instead of a mystic adapt.

Most of the times I've initiated, I've sacrificed the metamagic for an adapt power point. In fact I have not allocated a single point of magic into adapt abilities, every power point I have has been financed through initiations. Then I squander those power points on useless RP abilities that entertain me, but there's nothing stopping you from spending those PP's well. Although, I did allocate one PP for Heightened Concentration, which has been pretty excellent.

[Mäx]

And that's a great plan if have an unlimited BP/Karma budget. But in any other world you'll just suck forever if you try to branch out like that.

Wierd, i have a couple of character that do that straight out the gate(750 karma in errated karmagen)
It's not like the skills for shooting and spell casting cost a ton of karma.

Ofcource your not as good with weapons as dedicated sammy or as good with casting as a dedicated mage, but you can be good enought.

[Captain Karzak]

Ofcource your not as good with weapons as dedicated sammy or as good with casting as a dedicated mage, but you can be good enought.

Please quantify "good enough."

Also, how well do you think that will work out in BP? The OP said nothing about using KarmaGen to build his character.

[Critias]

Please quantify "good enough."

That's something that (like many other somethings) will vary wildly from game table to game table.  Arguing about it, or asking for him to define it, isn't going to do anyone any good.

[Captain Karzak]

That's something that (like many other somethings) will vary wildly from game table to game table.  Arguing about it, or asking for him to define it, isn't going to do anyone any good.

You are 100% wrong.

The very fact that what is "good enough" will vary from table to table and game to game is exactly why I asked Max to quantify how large these dice pools are.

Only then, with NUMBERS in hand, can the OP decide for himself "Yeah, that works for me! Can show me how you built that, Max?" or "Heck no! I really need to specialize more 'cause one of my friends is making something called a pornomancer, and another is playing some kinda cybered zombie."

[Mäx]

Ofcource your not as good with weapons as dedicated sammy or as good with casting as a dedicated mage, but you can be good enought.

Please quantify "good enough."

15 dice for melee with the weapon focus
12 for shooting and multicasting a pair of combat spells(per spell)

But she's not really an optimized build in anyway, except the multicasing of combat spells part.

[Mason]

Nice

How did you achieve 24 dice to cast?

[UmaroVI]

You split dice pools before modifiers, like power foci and specialization and mentor spirit.

Max, I actually agree with you about that. I think it's perfectly sensible to make a mystic adept who picks up a little bit of Combat magic. I have, however, seen a lot of really bad mystic adept builds that amount to a 200 point magician smooshed together with a 200 point adept.

[Critias]

That's something that (like many other somethings) will vary wildly from game table to game table.  Arguing about it, or asking for him to define it, isn't going to do anyone any good.

You are 100% wrong.

The very fact that what is "good enough" will vary from table to table and game to game is exactly why I asked Max to quantify how large these dice pools are.

Only then, with NUMBERS in hand, can the OP decide for himself "Yeah, that works for me! Can show me how you built that, Max?" or "Heck no! I really need to specialize more 'cause one of my friends is making something called a pornomancer, and another is playing some kinda cybered zombie."

My point is that "good enough" at one table isn't necessarily "good enough" at another table.  As such, it's impossible to really quantify, except for the table in question.  It's nice whenever someone attaches a general die pool range to any statement they make on the forums, sure, but it's not like "good enough" is a transferable commodity.  You can't show up at a min/maxer convention and insist that your core SR4A rulebook Weapons Specialist is automatically "good enough."

The final arbiter of when a character is okay is the GM in question, measured against the stick of the other PCs and the general challenge level of that GMs NPCs.  Not the internet.