[digeridork]

I have started planning my first campaign arc for a relatively new group and have hit a snag. So far the group has been doing a few jobs mostly designed to try out a different part of the rules and partly to shake out the characters (things like the troll becoming an ork, and our human physical adept becoming a dwarf rigger).

My snag is that this campaign arc involves a serial killer that was arrested , but set free due a sudden lack of evidence. Where the problem I am having is that I am unable to find anything about the legal process in 2072 Seattle - UCAS. Is it the same as the system that I am familiar with in America? Has it been changed to some other entity entirely?

I am pretty sure that I have missed something in one of the books and the stuff I am looking has probably been staring me in the face the whole time,  but can anyone point me in the right direction for finding information about what happens to a guy after he gets arrested?

Thanks in advance.

[Crimsondude]

Yes, it's basically the U.S. system.

The most recent info is in Vice. It is ridiculous to me, but this is Shadowrun and not Lawyerrun so I just accept and worry about more important stuff.

[Phylos Fett]

Vice is the most recent resource, and the Lone Star Sourcebook has info on this as well.

[CanRay]

Yeah, it's the US system, with the only change being that SINless don't have a right to a lawyer.  Or much rights at all, actually.

The police will take you, put you in a nice room, and basically interrogate the hell out of you until you confess or your lawyer is able to get you out of there.

If the guy ended up in court, and the evidence is missing during the court case, then "Double Jeopardy" comes into play, and he can skip down the street confessing all his wicked deeds that he was charged for in said case while on the 11 O'Clock News and nothing will happen to him legally.

Which, you know, is when the families of said victims are likely to pool money together and hire Shadowrunners to get Justice after the Law has failed.

[kirk]

Less than 60 years prior to this, the nations and governments of the world as we know it ended along with the lives of roughly 25% of the world's population. Since then other catastrophes and major events have wreaked havoc on what everyone believed.

You are astounded how the practice of law has changed. I'm astounded at how much remains similar, much less the same.

[CanRay]

Never underestimate the staying power of a bureaucracy.

[kirk]

Never underestimate the staying power of a bureaucracy.

a point. I've actually (and honestly) argued that bureaucracy, as much as we may hate it, is the true defender of civilization.

[CanRay]

It might be, I'll give it that.  But it certainly doesn't set out to originate that way, or stand as that very point, I can assure you.

I used to be part of it.  *Sighs*  Worst part is, best job I ever had, too.  Even if most people hated me for what I did.  And I wasn't even that bad a thing to deal with.

[Mason]

Also: note the fifth Amendment against self-incrimination still exists, and also applies to magical methods of coercion.

[kirk]

In the UCAS. Does it still exist in places like the CAS, NAN, ...?

[hobgoblin]

Reading the opening of the Law chapter i find myself thinking that local politicians may have quietly welcomed the Shiawasa decision. Once a corporation claims extraterritoriality, that is a area of the city that they no longer have to budget for. And i suspect the corporations are still paying some kind of tax or rent on their property. Sure, various regulations on emissions and such may be moot, but the politicians can point to the extraterritoriality and claim it is out of their hands. End result, less ground to cover by city services, perhaps less cases to prosecute (as long as they happen on corp turf, the city rent-a-cops don't care), and so on.

Hell, it may explain why runners can operate even in SR4's data sphere. Get onto corp grounds using an assumed id and such, keep the demolition to within corp borders, slip into the surrounding city and the rent-a-cops will just shrug unless the corp representative can slap some kind of id and extradition request on the desk. It is basically not their problem, and why should they inconvenience one of their citizens over some corporate allegation? In particular if the corporation is unwilling to say exactly why (black project snatch and grab, gotta love em) they want this citizen extradited?

[hobgoblin]

In the UCAS. Does it still exist in places like the CAS, NAN, ...?

CAS, yep, NAN, not a chance. I think some of the NAN nations even employ magic to get to the "truth" (Truth Dancers are mentioned in the ending story of Street Legends).

[Mason]

in the NAN???!!! No way! In some NAN courts, the judge/jury is/are SPIRITS! Magic is entirely permissible in NAN courts. Hope you are innocent when they Mind Probe you...

[digeridork]

Thank you for the quick and helpful replies.

[Chaemera]

If the guy ended up in court, and the evidence is missing during the court case, then "Double Jeopardy" comes into play, and he can skip down the street confessing all his wicked deeds that he was charged for in said case while on the 11 O'Clock News and nothing will happen to him legally.

Common misconception. First of all, if the evidence goes out the window, then it's usually a mistrial and in the event the evidence re-appears, or new evidence emerges, they can re-try the case (double jeopardy only applies if there's an actual acquittal or conviction). Second, even if he's found innocent due to the missing evidence, if the prosecution can prove that the evidence went missing as a result of the defendant's actions (or parties acting on the defense's behalf), this falls under the "fraudulent trial" exemption from Double Jeopardy.

Last but not least, if the Seattle justice system finds him innocent of murder, and he subsequently confesses, the UCAS justice system can try him for violation of his victim's Human Rights, since presumably the UCAS retains the "separate sovereigns" concept of current US law.