[Mason]

So, I have a player who consistently rolls 7, 8, or 9 hits to infiltrate vs. the 4 hits or so of the opposition to spot him. I use the teamwork rules and even occasionally add "that should not be easy at all" dice, sometimes slinging 25 ish dice to spot this guy. He isn't infiltrating in IMPOSSIBLE situations, but really? Walking up to a guy in broad daylight, palming his pistol, shooting his buddy, palming the pistol back, and then infiltrating back away? I am tempted to rule that no, he just can't do that, but....

Do you guys have any issue with the infiltration system?

[kirk]

So, I have a player who consistently rolls 7, 8, or 9 hits to infiltrate vs. the 4 hits or so of the opposition to spot him. I use the teamwork rules and even occasionally add "that should not be easy at all" dice, sometimes slinging 25 ish dice to spot this guy. He isn't infiltrating in IMPOSSIBLE situations, but really? Walking up to a guy in broad daylight, palming his pistol, shooting his buddy, palming the pistol back, and then infiltrating back away? I am tempted to rule that no, he just can't do that, but....

Do you guys have any issue with the infiltration system?

I don't know if I have an issue with it yet, but for the situation you just described... I can see it up to "palming the pistol back." Unless the pistol is suppressed.

There are a lot of "situational" assumptions in that, but thing is up to the first palming of the pistol it's sentry take-down, and I've seen it done in broad daylight. Palming the pistol is a matter of it being accessible and the guy being good enough, again I can see it. Now, the buddy falling due to being shot isn't stealthy at all and that's where I'd put the "gotcha" in your string.

If they're standing staggered looking in the same direction, however, then if your guy took the one in back and did the effort to catch the body before it falls (more dice), once more I can see it if he's good enough.

But he didn't take the pistol from the guy in front and shoot the guy behind. No. Do not care about dice rolls, he's not invisible. GM fiat.

Which means he took the pistol from the guy behind, and doesn't need to palm it back -- or doesn't have a place to put it on the other guy.

And if they're not standing one in front of the other we're back to blood spray and a falling body being NOT stealthy.

[Deliverator]

A lot of that situation depends on the weapon he used. A very small caliber pistol with a suppressor to the base of the skull pointed upward would leave very little actual blood, but would kill very effectively. Now doing that right next to someone, I don't care how suppressed it is, at 10ft you know it went off. This is why they use garrotes or knives to end lives of sentries, they are quiet. Body drop isn't quiet, you try dropping something that weighs around 200lbs and see how loud it is. If he doesn't put an extra roll into breaking the fall and letting the body drop softly, or waits to take him out in a situation where he won't fall (ie. in a chair, on the toilet, or maybe where it doesn't matter if he falls over like around the corner from his buddy)

But alas, if he is THAT good then let him do his job. But slowly over time start increasing the difficulty using thermographics, ultrasound, olfactory boosters, or whatever to increase the difficulty if you are worried about it. The better he gets, and the more important jobs are, the more shit he has to deal with avoiding. Eventually he may end up infiltrating with the sniper taking guys out as he gets close enough to catch them because killing them himself may not be feasible.

[ARC]

I'll Tell you this Mason, he's gotten worse with infiltration lately, next time have him roll for surprise, oops he got less hits then they did, once he shoots one, the guy he jacked the pistol from turns around realizes his holster is lighter and then quick draws and fires at him with a second pistol or some other nast goodness.  I had been thinking about how to handle him pulling that when we start the turn I run.

[Zilfer]

I'm actually still not quite sure what you can use infiltration for besides sneaking past someone? I mean if I want to get into a building without being seen do i just roll infiltration? once i'm inside do I just keep rolling it as i move about the building? Take into account 9 hit's is WAAAAAY crazy. Means your a stealthy ninja if you take the "Difficulty Table" into account. I try to go by that table as much as possible.

I believe the table went like this...

1 Hit = Easy
2 hit = Moderate
3 hits = hard
5+ hits = Extreme

So considering 5 is extreme, nigh impossible things are probably doable with 9 hits. You do have to remember however what makes sense. The GM trumps the rules every time if something doesn't make sense or if he wants it to slide to let the play feel like they are awesome. Most of the time if the PC's get 5 hit or more i'll let them have whatever they are doing threshhold wise. Especially if they did an opposed test and one by that much.

I mean these sentries, how do we know he wasn't bored on watch and watching a video on AR because, "Nothing ever happens on our watch." Maybe he was picking his nose and distracted, I don't know. Hell I know when i'm reading things I've been known to totally ignore a conversation when the person is standing right next to me talking to me for about 3 minutes and i look up. "What? Were you talking to me? How long were you talking?" When reading something interesting the outside world for me goes away.

Also consider are these sentries the important part of this mission? Is it meant to be a challenge or is the challenge waiting up ahead? You also can remember that the more people observing or something the more dice people get. I actually think for every additional person you get like a +1 dice.

Finally, you could always throw an adept at him with Enhanced perception 6 gives you like +6 dice, and have his intiution high, and perception high. If he still wins, then damn he is that good. You could also have them use Edge during the perception test.

Edit: noticed Arc's post. Yeah if it's totally being abused than don't let him get away with it but don't take it away from him either. For example maybe there's a camera watching where the guards are... and if the guard's suddenly "disappear" from the camera than security will tighten.

[Carmody]

7, 8 or 9 hits means 20 to 30 dices... or the player is really lucky.
In the second case it will not lasr for ever, you just need to be patient

In case he have so many dice then that is no surprise he can sneak past any guard. Maybe your problem lies in the number of dice that your player can throw.

Last point, as other said you should make sure that you do not let him do things that are physically impossible just because he scored many hits.

[Makki]

my infiltrator is targeting 30 dice. he has 21 currently. Of course he wins every infiltration check, but he's not really good at anything else. I have to carefully avoid social encounters or combat.
and this is shadowrun. Sam can shoot with 20+ dice, you have a problem with that? Social-adepts (aka pornomancers) can talk with 20-50 dice, again, a problem?
This comes with the game design by default.

[Zilfer]

Basically just talk with the player, and if you don't like this fact then let the player know to tone it down a bit. (shrugs)

[Mason]

The player in question slings about 12-14 dice, and most definitely does not cheat. It pisses me off, because i can watch him roll every time and there is no way he is cheating. You can hand him your own dice and they roll better for him than they do for you. Further, anyone who rolls against him has luck subtly shifted against them. I sling 26 dice against his 12 and score 4 hits, he scores 7. It is extremely frustrating, because every challenge I design for this infiltration expert results in him breezing through it. Also, he has Edge 6, and Zeench looks favorably on him when he decides to Edge something, granting him 12+ hits on most tests. And he sits right where i can see his every roll...Argh!

I have asked him not to run off and leave the party on it's own so often, but that is the only concession i have gotten from him. It is irritating to the extreme when I have to fiat just to get the story to stay on track and the super-important NPC does NOT die.

[kirk]

The player in question slings about 12-14 dice, and most definitely does not cheat. It pisses me off, because i can watch him roll every time and there is no way he is cheating. You can hand him your own dice and they roll better for him than they do for you. Further, anyone who rolls against him has luck subtly shifted against them. I sling 26 dice against his 12 and score 4 hits, he scores 7. It is extremely frustrating, because every challenge I design for this infiltration expert results in him breezing through it. Also, he has Edge 6, and Zeench looks favorably on him when he decides to Edge something, granting him 12+ hits on most tests. And he sits right where i can see his every roll...Argh!

I have asked him not to run off and leave the party on it's own so often, but that is the only concession i have gotten from him. It is irritating to the extreme when I have to fiat just to get the story to stay on track and the super-important NPC does NOT die.

Ah, one of those.

Make him roll from a cup. A shaker. Whatever you want to call it -- a container between his skin and the dice.

No, I'm not saying he's cheating. I've seen a bunch of theories why some people can do it, but I've seen enough who can to know there's no cheating (at least consciously) going on.

Every one of them with whom I've dealt can't seem to make it work if the dice roll out of a cup. They need the skinlink for the bonus to work.

Minor expansion. For a period of about three years in college (mumble) years ago, I was your infiltration guy. It was DnD (2ed), and if I needed the roll I made it. Always -- except when I had to roll from a cup. Which, eventually, became part of the GM's standard gear -- and which he started making everyone use.

I don't know why it worked. I just know it did on me, and has worked on the other dice-talented people I've met as well.

[Zilfer]

The player in question slings about 12-14 dice, and most definitely does not cheat. It pisses me off, because i can watch him roll every time and there is no way he is cheating. You can hand him your own dice and they roll better for him than they do for you. Further, anyone who rolls against him has luck subtly shifted against them. I sling 26 dice against his 12 and score 4 hits, he scores 7. It is extremely frustrating, because every challenge I design for this infiltration expert results in him breezing through it. Also, he has Edge 6, and Zeench looks favorably on him when he decides to Edge something, granting him 12+ hits on most tests. And he sits right where i can see his every roll...Argh!

I have asked him not to run off and leave the party on it's own so often, but that is the only concession i have gotten from him. It is irritating to the extreme when I have to fiat just to get the story to stay on track and the super-important NPC does NOT die.

Ah, one of those.

Make him roll from a cup. A shaker. Whatever you want to call it -- a container between his skin and the dice.

No, I'm not saying he's cheating. I've seen a bunch of theories why some people can do it, but I've seen enough who can to know there's no cheating (at least consciously) going on.

Every one of them with whom I've dealt can't seem to make it work if the dice roll out of a cup. They need the skinlink for the bonus to work.

Minor expansion. For a period of about three years in college (mumble) years ago, I was your infiltration guy. It was DnD (2ed), and if I needed the roll I made it. Always -- except when I had to roll from a cup. Which, eventually, became part of the GM's standard gear -- and which he started making everyone use.

I don't know why it worked. I just know it did on me, and has worked on the other dice-talented people I've met as well.

You'll have to play me in Liar's dice then. You'll win because I consistantly usually have at least a 6 in my dice pool Hard to lie if people tend to guess what you've rolled.

[Zilfer]

The player in question slings about 12-14 dice, and most definitely does not cheat. It pisses me off, because i can watch him roll every time and there is no way he is cheating. You can hand him your own dice and they roll better for him than they do for you. Further, anyone who rolls against him has luck subtly shifted against them. I sling 26 dice against his 12 and score 4 hits, he scores 7. It is extremely frustrating, because every challenge I design for this infiltration expert results in him breezing through it. Also, he has Edge 6, and Zeench looks favorably on him when he decides to Edge something, granting him 12+ hits on most tests. And he sits right where i can see his every roll...Argh!

I have asked him not to run off and leave the party on it's own so often, but that is the only concession i have gotten from him. It is irritating to the extreme when I have to fiat just to get the story to stay on track and the super-important NPC does NOT die.

>.> That's what I am in my current party and people HATE it when i DM. I'll use PC's with Dicepools of 6 dice roll without a screen and get 4 hits sometimes 5.

I had them afraid of one zombie because it was shot at by 4 different people -1 dice each time and STILL beat their hits with their dice pools of 8-12. <.< Rediculous.

[Mason]

Now, i am not a very unlucky person; I tend to score 50-70% hits on my dice. But this man, he scores 80-90% on average. He has only ever failed one test, because every time he rolls less than 4 hits, the Gamemaster of the moment rolls a critical glitch or just no hits. usually the glitch. On pools of 20.

[Zilfer]

Now, i am not a very unlucky person; I tend to score 50-70% hits on my dice. But this man, he scores 80-90% on average. He has only ever failed one test, because every time he rolls less than 4 hits, the Gamemaster of the moment rolls a critical glitch or just no hits. usually the glitch. On pools of 20.

Just wait his time will come just like me.

Though it is funny when a 6 Intelligent Orc PC of mine outsmarts both a Sorcerer, through RP, and a Bard with Bardic Knowledge through rolls..... Critical!

[PapaR]

Maybe use an auto roller? My buddy has this power, he jut can't seem to roll badly on dice. It's made me flip more than game of monopoly .

      (Fuck this game)
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