[Ganheim]

I've seen a couple of tabletop systems, and the most recent one was the "Star Wars 6D" which I liked for the flexibility - it never made sense to me that a character would be forced to forever use bows if he was an archer and never pick up a staff and start whacking people with it if he ever ran out of arrows. However, the rules are a little vague in a lot of areas like team assistance, fighting a running battle, modifying your gear...and the GM is exceedingly stingy in handing out money and character points in order to try to build skills or gear, besides the plethora of "no, I won't let you do that" or "no, even if you have no idea what police interrogators do, I won't let you roll the skills I let you sink points into, I demand that you 'role play it'." GURPS was the first alternative that I found, but its completion and organization is...a little lacking.

Shadowrun looks significantly more developed, concise, clean, and while its organization could use some work and the Matrix is so indecipherable that I'm still not sure of what to make of Hackers or Technomancers, the rest of it looks very much like a system that I'd like to try. However, making a character is not as simple as I thought. There's the "priority" system, but it seems to destroy the flexibility I'm looking for. I found this forum and the example character archetypes, which lack some of the strange oddities like poor skill or knowledge allocation but have a lot of information I can't figure out. How exactly the dice pools are allocated for things like the different Perception or First Aid (they're higher than Attrib+Skill), or whether they're using the BP system in the core book or the Karma generation system in the Runner's Companion book. Some are above the 400BP standard the core book recommends, many are far beneath the 750 Karma the RC book recommends. Is there an overwhelmingly preferred system for creation?

Other things like how far characters can actually run in a turn I still can't figure out - maybe I'm passing over it?

I wanted to start out with a diversified fighter to familiarize myself with the system, but details like "encumberance" that I see next to armor on the example archetypes but isn't mentioned outside the core book about carrying up to strength*30kg.

[Joush]

The rate you can run in a turn is on page 149. The rules for encumbrance by armor are on page 161, and basically boil down to if either armor rating exceeds your body attribute x 2 then you take -1 Agility attribute per 2 points over.

There's no clear preference on what system to use for character creation. I can see the fun of both.

The sample attributes that confused you have the bonuses of gear figured into dice pools. For example, if you have 4 Intuition and 3 Perception, your Perception dice pool would normally be 7. If you have audio and visual enhancements on the gear your wear, however, some people add those in.

Not to promote myself too much, but for your starting-out fighter, you may wish to look at http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=4923.msg76827#msg76827 as an example of a cyberaugmented fighter "skeleton."

It's build with the Build Point system, but isn't finished yet, with only 260 BP spent. That's a deliberate choice to allow a player using the 'skeleton' to customize it to their taste without needing to go though the full complexity of building a character or risking forgetting something and making a character that isn't good at the role chosen for it.

I'd also suggest you check out the chummer character generator, as it can really help new or veteran players navigate making a SR4 character. If nothing else, it keeps track of points for you. http://www.dndjunkie.com/blog/?cat=9

[Ganheim]

Since the character advancement system is built around karma, I've been spending most of my time looking at different karma builds. Most people in the local area that I've mentioned it to consider the "BP" the optional way of doing it and also prefer Karma. I'm not sure why there isn't even an optional rule for knowledge points or charisma points based on base attributes (like there is for intuition + logic *5 for knowledge points in the BP system), but using the Karma character creation as outlined in the Runner's Companion I've come up with this gunslinger/infiltrator type character:

Metatype: Elf (0 karma according to RC pg 41)
Attributes: Body 5 (+4, 42 karma)
Agility 6 (+4, 54 karma)
Reaction 5 (+4, 42 karma)
Strength 5 (+4, 42 karma)
Charisma 3 (+0)
Intuition 5 (+4, 42 karma)
Logic 5 (+4, 42 karma)
Will 5 (+4, 42 karma)
Edge 5 (+4, 42 karma)
Attribute total karma: 348 karma.

Essence: 6
Initiative: 11
IP: 1?
Damage Track Physical: 11, Stun: 11

Active Skills: Athletics group 2 (20)
Close Combat group 3 (35)
Firearms group 2 (20)
Stealth group 3 (35)
Dodge 2 (8)
Throwing Weapons 1 (4)
Escape Artist 1 (4)
Perception 2 (8)
Armorer 1 (4)
First Aid 1 (4)
Locksmith 3 (14)
Exotic Weapon: Grapple Gun 1 (4)
Active skill total: 160 karma (508 total)

Knowledge: Armors 1 (2)
Firearms 2 (4)
Parkour 1 (2)
Martial Arts 3 (7)
Security Design 1 (2), specialization: Physical (1)
Security Procedures 2 (4)
Languages: Tagalog (N)
Arabic 2 (4)
English 3 (7)
Hebrew 3 (7)
Japanese 2 (4)
Marathi 1 (2)
Knowledge and Languages total: 46 karma (554 total)

Qualities: Ambidextrous (10)
Double-Jointed (10)
Martial Artist: Krav Maga 2 (20)
Martial Artist: Arni de Mano 1 (10)
Toughness (20)
Enemy (Connection 3, Incidence 2)
Quality total: 60 karma (614 total)

Contacts: Forger (Connection 4 Loyalty 5)
Fixer (Connection 4 Loyalty 4)
Contacts total: 17 karma (631 total)

The general idea I had was a Filipino who wandered through southwest India, was subcontracted a few years for the Israeli military, then shot through Europe to end up making a fool of a subcontracted port security runner in a New England port before heading towards the modern midwest United States, or where-ever the campaign begins, where another good connection with a corporate security fixer-type contact is made. Any comments or criticisms so far?

[UmaroVI]

Almost everyone who uses karmagen uses the german errata: characteristics are 5x, not 3x, and races cost karma=bp, not free.

[Ganheim]

I spotted the details of armor encumberance in the corner of the page after looking specifically for the page numbers (161 in S4A), and I think that the dice pool that confused me had things like augments and medkit ratings pre-calculated in. The German errata makes a lot more sense than as it's given in RC 41, so I did some recalculating.

Name: "Nina" Amihan Dimatulac
Metatype: Elf (30)
Body 4
Agility 4
Reaction 5
Strength 4
Charisma 3
Intuition 4
Logic 4
Will 3
Edge 3
Essence: 3.4
Initiative 9, IP 1
Damage Track Physical 10, Stun 10
Attribute karma total: 365

Active Skills: Athletics skill group 2 (20)
Close Combat skill group 3 (35)
Firearms skill group 2 (20)
Stealth skill group 3 (35)
Dodge 2 (8)
Throwing Weapons 1 (4)
Escape Artist 1 (4)
Perception 2 (8)
Armorer 1 (4)
First Aid 1 (4)
Locksmith 3 (14)
Exotic Weapon: Grapple Gun 1 (4)
Active Skill total: 160 karma

Armor 1 (2)
Automatics 2 (4)
Biology 1 (2)
Bladed Weapons 2 (4)
Cooking 2 (4)
Gang Identification 1 (2)
Longarms 2 (4)
Martial Arts History 3 (7)
Ninjitsu 3 (7)
Parkour 2 (4)
Pistols 2 (4)
Security Design 2 (4), specialization: Physical (1).
Corporate Security Procedures 2 (4).
Police Procedures 2 (4)
Languages: Native: Arabic
English 3 (7)
Hebrew 3 (7)
Japanese 1 (2)
Knowledge Skill total: 73 karma

Ambidextrous 10
Double-Jointed 10
Martial Artist: Krav Maga 20 (Take Aim free action, Ready Weapon free action)
Toughness 20
Martial Arts Maneuvers (Multi-strike 4, Two Weapon Style 4, Watchful Guard 4)
Enemy Runner (Connection 3 Incidence 3), +12 karma
Qualities total: 60 karma

Cyberears 4 ($1500 E 0.5) with Dampener ($750 E 0.1)
Spatial Recognizer ($750 E 0.1)
Balance Augment ($5000 E 0.1)
Increased Sensitivity ($1000 E 0.1)
Wired Reflexes ($11000 E 2)
Platelet Factories ($25000 E 0.2, Installation 0.1)
Augments total: $46,450, E 2.1, 18.58 karma

Lifestyle: Low (1 month $2000)
2* Fake SIN (4 $4000)
Fake License: Firearms (r4 $400), Concealed Carry (r4 $400)
Inline Skates ($100)
Thighpack ($80)
Toolkit, Armorer’s ($500)
Medkit (Rating 4 $400)
Survival Kit ($100)
Metalink Commlink ($100, Vector Xim OS $200, subvocal microphone $50, skinlink $50)
Earbuds (r3 $30 w/ skinlink $50, spatial recognizer $100, audio enhancer r3 $300, select sound filter r2 $200)
Contact Lenses (3 $150, flare compensation $50, thermographic $100, smartlink $500)
Endoscope ($250)
Climbing Gear ($200)
Rappeling Gloves ($70)
Gecko Tape Gloves ($250)
Grapple Gun ($500 w/75m microwire $37)
Lockpick Set ($300)
3* Nanopaste Disguise, small ($500)
Maglock Passkey (4 $8000)
Maglock Sequencer (4 $800)
Armor: Heavy Armor Clothing ($600 4/2) and Form-fitting Half-body Suit ($900 4/1)
Bike Racing Helm ($200 1/2)
Chameleon Suit ($8000 6/4, Thermal Dampening 4 $2000)
Gear and Lifestyle total: $42,810, 38 karma

Survival Knife ($50)
Tonfa ($50)
5* Throwing Knife ($100)
Defiance EX Shocker ($150)
Ares Viper Silvergun ($500, internal smartgun $500, skinlink $50, gas vent 3 $400, hidden arm slide $350, 4 spare clips $20, 60 spare regular ammo $120, 30 flechette clips $300)
Mannlicher Wildhunter ($1200, silencer $400, flare compensation $50, top-mounted powered slide $3500, 5 spare clips $25, 30 spare regular ammo $60)
The price for the silencer is listed as $200 in the core rulebooks, but $400 in Arsenal. I'm assuming the latter is the correct price and using $400.
Weapons total: $3620

Contact: James Wellsworth, Male Human Fixer (C4/L5)
Specialties: Fences, Underworld Politics, Corporate Politics, UCAS Politics
A stoic, commanding man of indeterminate age, he wears black glasses, one camouflaged earbud and dark business suits. Careful to keep a cool head, he has long been willing to deal with people of all types and backgrounds from politicians to black marketers, many of whom he has moved from extensive blackmail to amicable backroom dealings. His managerial position prioritized information and shipping, playing smugglers, politicians, and rival businessmen against each other to pave the way for his company - and himself. Unfortunately, his political dealings were not always closed door enough and a scandal briefly left him out to dry. Nina, a recent entrant to the area and friend of one of his matrix-forging contacts offered her services and defiantly stopped two assassins, kick-starting her relationship with Wellsworth. His reputation now on the mend, he continues to command a noteworthy amount of control on the local gray and black markets, as well as his ever-growing list of business and political contacts.

Contact: Imal Sadat, Male Human Forger (C5/L5)
Specialties: Forgery (Fake ID, License), Rumors, Cyber-Security
A normally quiet, introverted human with a tendency to look at his feet when he’s speaking to others face-to-face, but exudes suave and confidence online. His life revolved around giving people a new start, for the right price, and he was well known if by many names through southern Asia, Europe, and beyond. He had an expanding network of friends through the Matrix when one of his client runner teams ran afoul of the Mitsuhama group, giving up one of his favorite aliases. Kidnapped and held on a safe house in the Eastern Province of Sri Lanka, a trio of runners attacked his captors in an unrelated mission; Nina rescued him before her team detonated the building and exfiltrated to Bangalore, leaving the authorities and Mitsuhama to presume the house and its inhabitants annihilated. Nina’s team dissolved after that; under her protection and with his help he followed her through Palestine, Germany, and Britain until settling in UCAS.

Enemy: Algernon, Male Elf Shadowrunner (C3/I3)
Specialties: Tracking, Street Gangs, Capoeira
A stocky, slightly short, dark-haired elf with hobbies in swimming and parkour. Previously involved in a long-term contract with Neonet assisting security in New England air and seaports, a fumbled job and Nina’s not-accidental actions embarrassed and framed him for aiding and abetting. On unwarranted suspension, Algernon channeled his fury and tracked down Nina, leading to a drawn-out armed brawl in Philadelphia that smeared his upstanding reputation but also instantly made him a minor street celebrity for his dogged determination across eighteen city blocks despite police attempts to stop both. The debacle put him into long-term suspension with Neonet, and the inconclusive match left him unable to leave Nina be. Determined to avenge himself and see which one is truly the better whether he has to use his knack for procuring street gangs or himself, he continues pursuing her.
Contacts total: 38 karmaGrand total: 734 karma

Character BackstoryBorn to Filipino parents who emigrated to the Arabian Caliphate to escape economic and especially social oppression. Literally born on the move, her parents' transitionary status meant that she never saw proper medical care or a public institution for years and never acquired her own SIN. A fighter in many senses, she was always slow to interact with others unnecessarily. Slow to make enemies and slower to make friends, she eventually had to move away, though her parents' connections helped her find a place in a counterintelligence subcontracting agency. Operating all over east Africa, south Asia, and the south Pacific, one of her smaller operations against a Mitsuhama listening post encountered an unexpected third party. Rather than detonate the prisoner with the Mitsuhama safe house, she rescued him and discovered a grateful friend and powerful master forger. Returning to Palestine, the two worked for Israeli counterterrorism and military support for three years until new superiors took control of her contract and decided using foreign militants was too dangerous.

With the help of Sadat, Amihan Dimatulac proceeded through Kurdistan, Serbia, Austria, Czech, Belgium, then Britain, eventually she became frustrated with the difficulty of attaining work that both challenged her to expand and wasn't suicidally lethal. Concerned about drawing attention from Saeder-Krupp, Sadat directed her west and the pair traveled to UCAS where she took a new identity as Nina. Unfortunately, attempting to collect her surreptitiously shipped weapons led to confrontation with a subcontracted security chief, leading to a fight and a drawn out chase across the airport city, parts of which were televised and embarrassed Algernon and saw him swear vengeance and a new match to see who was the better. Nina headed west for another city, another job. There, an unlikely contact of a corporate manager's cook lead to a brief, intensely violent bodyguard duty with Wellsworth, who ended up becoming her new Fixer.

[Joush]

She looks good. My only suggestion would be to mention that toughness cost almost as much as another point of body and provides less benefit. I like her concept and background, you've clearly given it a lot of thought.

I hope you have fun playing.

[Phylos Fett]

She looks good. My only suggestion would be to mention that toughness cost almost as much as another point of body and provides less benefit.

Problem with that is that in this particular Karma build, to squeeze it in one of the Attributes would have to drop from 3 to 2 to up the Body to 5.