[Faradon]

I've seen several posts between SRM discussions, Dumpshock, and here discussing how to keep balance during advancement between awakened and mundane characters.  Some have suggested letting the mundane folks trade karma for money (2500/karma) during play and other such things.

My question revolves around the opposite approach.  As campaigns continue and players start making better money, what are mages doing with their cut of the money?  I would expect this to be especially problematic at the point where enough money is being accumulated for people to start buying deltaware.

I suppose I am also making the assumption that the mage won't want to implant deltaware themself... but what's really to buy other than a couple of foci?  What would keep mages running the shadows anywhere near that point if they have that kind of money to retire on? 

[Frankie the Fomori]

You could think about enchanting, or Alchemy, opening a magic shop, investing in rare books dealing in the Arcane, founding a magic group, investing in a wide array of spells? I think there is more than enough to keep a spellcaster investing money on pace with those that would need Bio/cyber ware.

[Critias]

Why did that mage start running the shadows in the first place (instead of getting a kushy job somewhere as a contract magical consultant, or doing wards for money, or something)?  Have the circumstances that forced 'em to illegal, dangerous, high-risk, work changed?   

Why do the OTHER characters (mundane, Adepts, or otherwise) keep running the shadows when they've got enough money to retire?  There's no rule that says anyone has to constantly upgrade instead of saving up their money to quit, mage or anyone else.

It takes a character hook to want to be a shadowrunner, and that same 'hook' should keep most characters in the shadows, regardless of their general archetype, or the amount of money they've made.  If it's in character for you to run the shadows this week, is a fat credstick the only thing keeping you from retiring, really?

[TranKirsaKali]

You could think about enchanting, or Alchemy, opening a magic shop, investing in rare books dealing in the Arcane, founding a magic group, investing in a wide array of spells? I think there is more than enough to keep a spellcaster investing money on pace with those that would need Bio/cyber ware.

Most of those suggestions will not help with game play.  Opening a magic shop and investing in rare books dealing in the Arcane are just money sinks.  Not useful for the game. Founding a magic group is just a Karma sink.  By the point Faradon is talking about you have either already spent the Karma to do that or have joined another magic group.  And should have at least 2 levels of initiation under your belt.  Alchemy is just a knowledge skill and therefor useless.  Enchanting is only a money sink in the costs of the materials.  And you are only going to create so many foci unless you are planning on selling them and making more money.  And it is also a Karma sink.  You would need a decently high level of enchanting to make anything worth while.  As for buying a vast array of spells, there really are only so many you need.  After a certain point it is just throwing money away.  And I don't think that is what Faradon is looking for either.  

Spell slingers do end up at a point where there is nothing left to buy other than lifestyle.  Buying upgraded foci is a good thing though.  You can only hold spells in something up  to the rating of the foci.  So if you are at a point where people are able to buy delta ware, I would start looking for some force 7 or 8 foci to play with.  Turn off the others and have fun with some that can really hold a spell for you, help with drain, increase your power ect.  And start saving for retirement.  I mean what caster wouldn't like a nice house to retire to?  And if your a shaman, think of the nice force 8 lodge you could build in your own home. And ritual casting is so much easier on familiar territory.

[Dead Monky]

My mage (and my gf's adept) loans money out to the rest of the team.  We're like a bank.  If the rigger or weapon specialist needs an extra bit of cash for something they come to us.

[Glyph]

Cash for karma, and the inverse, can be useful rules, BUT balancing cash-dependent characters (samurai, hackers, etc.) vs. karma-dependent characters (mages, technomancers) is a balancing act as it is, so if you do use this rule, factor it in when you are balancing out cash and karma payouts.  And remember that mages may be karma sinks, but they have potentially unlimited advancement, and at the higher levels of karma they can potentially become broken.

[Kontact]

Who says that a mage can't buy a 800,000 nuyen Luftschiffbau Zeppelin LZ-2065 to trick out as a massive flying fortress of doom?

Where is that written?

[DarkLloyd]

Who says that a mage can't buy a 800,000 nuyen Luftschiffbau Zeppelin LZ-2065 to trick out as a massive flying fortress of doom?

Where is that written?

As my Street Sam ChromeMonger would say; "Right here on my Willy Pete grenade launcher." 

[Mystic]

Ok, lets not forget one thing about money: there is NEVER "too much". One never knows when a stray bulllit will give you a month stay at the resident medical facility, and esepcially for magically active IT AINT CHEAP. And lets not forget things like expenes, need to pay off a smuggler to get you out of the Azzie bush? Or to pay off that Mafia Don when you "accidently" fireball his limo...

The list goes on. Money may no have a direct impact on a magic user, but it can make life a lot easier.

Oh, and about that Willie Pete VS Zep...That launcher must have NICE range. Now a rocket launcher on the other hand....

 

[System]

Given how much more valuable Karma is to awakened characters than money is to mundane characters, a Cash for Karma rule would have to be done and an outlandish exchange rate.  That's why I've never liked the idea. 

I feel this quote sums it up best:

"Mages with too much money should just be doing what any good rich Magician would do. Models."

[DarkLloyd]

Oh, and about that Willie Pete VS Zep...That launcher must have NICE range. Now a rocket launcher on the other hand....

 

not if yer on one of those big buildin's it's floatin over. heh

[Lansdren]

Following on from the comment above about the mage being the bank in his game,


How about a exchange of cash for karma between players,  now karma is inportant to both so there should be a fair exchange maybe 10,000 per point of karma.

Example
Sam the Sam is Karma rich but money poor and finds himself 20k short for that piece of chrome he's after. Now he could just wait up abit and get it with the proceeds from the next run or two but thats just too long to wait. Sam goes to his friend Mark whos a mage and asks if he can exchange some of his Karma (for which Mark is in need of) for some cash (which Mark has more then he thinks he needs). The 20k cash is given to Sam and Mark gets two points of karma from Sam.

This would give everybody a way to share out the rewards of a run to those who need it and I dont think it would alter the balance to much really

[The_Gun_Nut]

I do a single exchange of a single karma for cash (and vice versa) per adventure/mission.  Players can exchange karma between themselves for a similar fee (5k nuyen minimum), but only for a single point per set of player exchange.  So, if one mage wanted 5 karma extra from the adventure, he could buy one at the set rate (5k nuyen) from the GM, and could buy one from each of four (4) other players at the table, for a minimum fee of 5k nuyen each or 20k nuyen total.

This makes it more expensive than build points (since each is effectively worth 2 karma and can buy 5k nuyen, themselves).  However, if the players need a bit more cash, then it works in their favor.  I've always felt that money is a bit easier to come by, but then, I'm the one of the ones who began selling taxi drivers as meat to the local street doc.  (Get a taxi ride to a street doc, shoot the driver in the face, take body inside to doc, walk out with money, what could be easier?)

[Dead Monky]

I can't do the cash for karma thing.  It makes no sense to me.  Karma is supposed to be an abstract representation of your life, lessons learned, and experience.  You can't buy that.  (Yeah, yeah, skillwires, not the same thing.)  Another thing we've done is used our money to pimp out our houses.  We've filled them with security death bots, DNArt, and other crap.  Hell, I've been debating putting in a money pool a la Scrooge McDuck.

[Lansdren]

I can't do the cash for karma thing.  It makes no sense to me.  Karma is supposed to be an abstract representation of your life, lessons learned, and experience.  You can't buy that.  (Yeah, yeah, skillwires, not the same thing.)  Another thing we've done is used our money to pimp out our houses.  We've filled them with security death bots, DNArt, and other crap.  Hell, I've been debating putting in a money pool a la Scrooge McDuck.

From a role play and fluff perspective, My idea revolves around the Karma transfer being the goodwill / positive effect of you helping someone out the mechanics of the transfer are just crunch.