[Usda Beph]

Straing as it is I work with both systems Doc. Primarilly Metric for the last 11+, I still can't do that calculation in my head.

[FoxBoy]

I made an offhand comment on the way to a game about it being my luck that I'll roll nothing but one's...

Sadly, the dice gods made that true. The guys at my DnD game can attest to that too. 6 1's on a d20 in a row. With different dice.

For 5 hours of gaming, my d20 didn't roll more then 10 at any time except the one time I needed a LOW number... then it rolled 20.

I will never again taunt the dice gods.

[Frostriese]

Sadly, the dice gods made that true. The guys at my DnD game can attest to that too. 6 1's on a d20 in a row. With different dice.

Thats definitly a case of playing the wrong system!

Damn, I wished Id get six 1s a row! (I.e., the equivalent to six 20s in a row in DnD)

[Juxtamon]

FoxBoy:  You 'n me, we's similar cloth.

And it doesn't seem to matter what game is played...my dice-gods snicker at me, no matter what.  D&D?  Nearly half the games I play, I have a dominant stretch of die-rolling on a d20 that does not exceed 7.  I play a campaign of KULT (older Swedish-translated game of horrible, horrible things) where the skill checks and combat rolls are inverse to the D&D system (1s are critical successes, and 20s are baaad news), and my dice nicely accomodate the adjustment.

   Designing characters seems almost moot sometimes.  I make someone who's a sneaktastic master (had a halfling rogue/ranger multiclass, played the campaign 'til we were about 18th level), and durned if I could make him seem competent at his best skills, with how I rolled.  Actually, it seems a LOT that the things my character is SUPPOSED to be able to do- those are the things at which he fails, if called to roll for it.

  There was a carryover from a D&D game when some of us were playing a later Star Wars Saga Ed. campaign, where I had posted "Take 10, Dumb@$s!" above my skills.

Now, this is not to say that this is ALWAYS the case.  Very occasionally, I have a 'Vegas Baby!' night, where everything I roll is gold.  My friends are all aware of this odd, odd tops(1/3)-bottoms(2/3) tendency, to the point that I cannot borrow dice from others...there seems to be a short-term contagion effect as well.  An ex-GF has abandoned whole sets of dice because she forgot, and let me borrow a die for a check, or damage roll, and her follow-up dice results were catastrophic.


    A D&D group made me a certificate once...I still have it in one of my game binders - "Most Extreme Dice"...appreciation is still appreciation, I guess.  Heh.

[Chaotic Insane]

That's why I just roll my dice 6 times and write down numbers but don't bother writing the numbers I roll. Even with the "re-roll ones and twos" house rule there's still no way a character with an average stat of 12 is going to go well in an average 16 party. So I just make up a balanced set of stats, hand it to the DM, and usually he doesn't know any better. Or in Dad and Doom's case, just don't really care. Or take pity. I'm not sure which.

[Usda Beph]

Pity has nothing to do with it on my part. I have been a gamer for over half my 44 years, so I know a Heroic character from a God-Play Characters. Good stats are fine, but a character with above average stats on everything are boring! A good fighter to will have an above average str, dex, con (15-18) and have average everything else. I like heroic, heck, the character "flaw" of a character doesn't have to be statisical I have a Munchy Character that had a weakness of Lore. Yeah he could crush the crap out of most everything... Bards could however leave him sitting on the ground in the middle of combat with a good song or story! My brother used Bards well to so I had to worry about that!

Dice will turn fickle and even abandon those great characters OR actually make a gaming moment unforgettable.

Faceplant into cracked glass on a delapidated warehouse anyone!?! Price-less!

[The_Gun_Nut]

You and I have different ideas of what "above average" are.  For typical d20, like mentioned earlier, above average is the 12 to 14 range, anything higher is "exceptional."

Above average strength/stamina for a fighting type might be 14 to 16, but 17+ is still exceptional in my book.  I've made plenty of d20 style characters with a run of 12 to 14 attributes all around, perhaps with one at 16 to emphasize that ability.  The only time I use exceptional stats is to strongly emphasize that character's ability (typically, a wizard).

[Usda Beph]

True Gun but I feel that a hero should be a hero! Yes 12-14 is above average and acceptable for an older hero. In my prime I would have had between a 17-18 (without exceptionals {01-00}) strength, a definite 18 Constitution and maybe a 14 dex. Intel/Wisdom around an 7-9 (higher wisdom than intel by far) charisma... I don't know 6 maybe.

That is using the examples from the PHB. I'm the stats you gave now & my chances of survival are not what I'd consider good as an adventurer!

[Angelone]

I remember one time a gm who watched me roll my stats told me they were too high. Everything was between 14-17. He said he wanted the game kept realistic. I replied by saying we're playing DnD and one of my friends was playing an elf. He didn't get it...

Anyway I agree with Usda, heroes should be heroic. My barbarian should be able to cleave through hordes of monsters, not get beaten up by the local innkeeper. Granted he could be a retired adventurer, but you know what I mean. Which is something that makes me mad about online games, especially EQ back in the day, the npcs are so much higher level and tougher than you, yet they turn to you for help. Do it yourself! I'm busy trying not to get eaten by rats! 

[The_Gun_Nut]

A hero isn't stats (although those help out a lot).  A hero is what one does with what is given.  In every D&D prior to 4th Ed., you could spread your attributes around and your character wasn't gimped.  On the contrary, it often helped your character survive much longer.

And the "average" for humans is the 10 to 11 range, so having 12 to 14 in every stat makes one well above average.  That's pretty heroic.  Having one attribute an 18 makes one (exceptionally) focused.  Still heroic, but in a different way.

Having below average, or well below average, attributes in mental stats doesn't contribute to heroism, IMO.  In fact, it slates the character for mookhood.  And if the character's charisma (a typical dump stat) is very low (the 6 mentioned) then folks probably won't think of the guy as heroic.  Probably just the sidekick, since he isn't personable enough to like.  Or even that smart (7 intelligence).  Or observant (9 wisdom).  He's there as the meat shield for the REAL heroes.  That paladin with the good charisma?  Yeah, he's obviously the one who really saved the town.

[Mystic]

Depending on my game, I tend to give a bit more, especially if I have a feeling the campaign wont go for very long for whatever reason. That and while it can be very rewarding to build a character from scratch (my 13th Level Ranger/Fighter from Pathfinder a prime example, or my "main" SR character), sometimes you just want to get into the thick of things quickly or be able to take on a bit more a bit sooner.

If I want to "play" with Insect spirits, I would definately want a crew with some meat, other than watching my crew BECOME meat.

No one wants to read a comic about Rick Jones or Alfred Pennyworth, we want to know about the Avengers or Batman. So in that regards, as long as stats are rolled legally, then let the dice fall where they may.

[Usda Beph]

A hero isn't stats (although those help out a lot).  A hero is what one does with what is given.  In every D&D prior to 4th Ed., you could spread your attributes around and your character wasn't gimped.  On the contrary, it often helped your character survive much longer.

Str-16
Int-10(ish)
Wis-12
Dex-13
Con-17
Cha-11

That's not a hero. Thats ME by (80s-90s standards) AD&D standards. Plain old ordinary 40 hour a week father of two. And yes on the inside I am a hero, A fighter, My bro would have been a mage. Book smart, body broken (Only had one lung due to a tumor when he was a young child). But we would have been NPCs to the legendary heroes that our characters were to become.

[FastJack]

A hero isn't stats (although those help out a lot).  A hero is what one does with what is given.  In every D&D prior to 4th Ed., you could spread your attributes around and your character wasn't gimped.  On the contrary, it often helped your character survive much longer.

Str-16
Int-10(ish)
Wis-12
Dex-13
Con-17
Cha-11

That's not a hero. Thats ME by (80s-90s standards) AD&D standards. Plain old ordinary 40 hour a week father of two. And yes on the inside I am a hero, A fighter, My bro would have been a mage. Book smart, body broken (Only had one lung due to a tumor when he was a young child). But we would have been NPCs to the legendary heroes that our characters were to become.

Is your name Caramon?

[Usda Beph]

Is your name Caramon?

Caramon
Str 18/65
Wis-10
Con-17
Int-12
Dex-11
Cha-15

I have his character card in my wallet. I put it there during GenCon 09 so I could use it as a get out of dead card during the Hickman's Bavarian Killer Breakfast!

[FastJack]

Nice!