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Involving the Infiltration specialist

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raggedhalo

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« on: <11-21-11/0536:23> »
Hi folks,

I'm after some help again!

One of the players in my game* is playing an Adept (Invisible Way, but not with the Way of the Adept stuff) specialised in the Infiltration team role - stats under the spoiler, below.  She's got about 40 Karma total and all players in my game start with 56BP of additional skills (Computer 2, Data Search 2, Dodge 2, Etiquette 2, Infiltration 2, Perception 2, and one of Blades, Clubs, Pistols, Thrown Weapons or Unarmed Combat at 2) and (Charisma + Intuition)x3 BP of extra Contacts.  They all also got the 10-point SINner Negative Quality over and above the 35BP cap because of how the campaign started.


Metatype: Elf

Body 3
Agility 6
Reaction 3
Strength 4
Charisma 4
Intuition 4
Logic 4
Willpower 3

Essence 6
Magic 5
Initiative 7/1
Edge 3

Initiate Grade 1
Metamagic: Adept Centering

Positive Qualities
Adept
Astral Chameleon
Catlike
Double-Jointed
Natural Athlete

Negative Qualities
Bipolar
Poor Self-Control: Thrill Seeker
Scorched
Signature
SINner: criminal
Weak Immune System

Active Skills
Athletics Group 3
Computer 2
Data Search 2
Demolitions 4
Dodge 3
Escape Artist 2
Etiquette 2
Hardware 4 (5)
Locksmith 3 (4)
Perception 4
Software 2
Stealth Group 3
Tracking 3
Unarmed Combat 3

Knowledge Skills
Ares Macrotechnology 3
Civil Engineering 3
Competitive Gymnastics 3
Security Companies 3
Security Design 3
Security Procedures 3

Languages
English (N)
Japanese 3
Sperethiel 3

Contacts
Fence (5/3)
ShadowSEA (varies/2)
Spider (3/3)
Street Doc (3/2)

Adept Powers
Cloak 2
Gliding
Improved Ability: Hardware 1
Improved Ability: Locksmith 1
Improved Senses: Audio Dampening
Multi-Tasking
Nimble Fingers
Traceless Walk
Wall Running


The rest of the group consists of an elven technomancer rigger (Fire Support/Transportation), a human technomancer hacker (Matrix Support), and an ork voodoo magician (Close Combat/Fire Support).  They're soon to be joined by a human Asatru magician (Investigation/Magical Support).

The problem we're having is two-fold, really:

1.  Whenever we get into combat, she gets really bored; everyone else has multiple Initiative Passes, she only has one (the technomancers tend to be in VR; the rigger uses drones, of course, and the hacker attacks enemy commlinks, usually having prepared ahead of time)
2.  She feels out-shone in her own area of expertise, because she believes that between drones and hacking the technomancers uncover more information and so on than she could ever hope to.

I'm aware that a lot of this is down to my approach as a GM and/or the players' approach to the situations they find themselves in, but I'd really appreciate some input on ways either to rejig the character (within the broad concept of "Parker from Leverage") or ways to change up the kinds of challenges they face in adventures to make sure there's a role for the Infiltration specialist without taking away from the technomancers' fun.


*: she's actually my girlfriend, which makes this sort of problem extra fun, as I'm sure you can imagine
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JustADude

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« Reply #1 on: <11-21-11/0555:23> »
I'm aware that a lot of this is down to my approach as a GM and/or the players' approach to the situations they find themselves in, but I'd really appreciate some input on ways either to rejig the character (within the broad concept of "Parker from Leverage") or ways to change up the kinds of challenges they face in adventures to make sure there's a role for the Infiltration specialist without taking away from the technomancers' fun.

My suggestion is rework the powers to boost her IPs so she's able to keep up in combat. Not 100% familiar with Adepts, but that seems like the most reasonable solution would be to rework her powers so she can get the extra IPs to keep up with the other combatants.

As for the other problem... yeah, riggers and hackers have a substantial edge over flesh-and-blood infiltrators in information gathering, which is pretty much the way things work in the real world. Your best bet would be to create situations where a 'human touch' is needed. Perhaps places where they can't smuggle a drone in, but a person could bluff/con/bribe their way through security?
 
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #2 on: <11-21-11/0607:35> »
I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but ... You have a houngan on the team. Have a loa ride her character, but let her RP its actions.

As for the outshining her in her own field, well, gee. HERF guns, EMP weapons, Faraday cages, hardwired networks, and all sorts of other things can easily neutralize the utility of the technomancers. There is also no shortage of active and passive magical security measures that can limit sorcery and spirits. The problem with drones and spirits is that drones can get hacked, and spirits can get banished.

The only matter there is that there is a line between making it inconvenient enough that the the adept has to go in without pissing off the other four players as they sit on their asses waiting for the end of "The GM's Girlfriend Show."
« Last Edit: <11-21-11/0616:55> by James Meiers »

JustADude

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« Reply #3 on: <11-21-11/0611:00> »
I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but ... You have a houngan on the team.

Have a loa ride her character, but let her RP its actions.

Yep... that'd boost her IPs alright.  8)

Since it looks like it'd be a Guardian spirit, definitely want to add whatever ranged-weapon skill she has to the spirit's Optional Powers, and/or Conceal, depending on what Force the houngan wants to summon at.
 
« Last Edit: <11-21-11/0621:32> by JustADude »
“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.”
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"Being average just means that half of everyone you meet is better than you."
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Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #4 on: <11-21-11/0629:45> »
If reworking the character is an option then redoing the powers to add initiative passes would fix some of the problem.

As far as getting out shinned one thing to think about is a mission where they have to sneak in and steal something physical. The mage and technomancers would be assisting, but the infiltration specialist becomes the star as it is her skills that are needed the most.

In the game I run the infiltration specialist doesn't do much scout work at all she often sneaks in just prior to the main group to get an advantage or help neutralize some aspect of the security for the rest of the team.
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #5 on: <11-21-11/0657:45> »
I'm pretty sure the downdraft from most flying drones is magnitudes more likely to disturb some sort of air/mass pressure sensor that an adept with Traceless Walk.

raggedhalo

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« Reply #6 on: <11-21-11/0741:38> »
Thanks for all of this!

I guess the other big thing is that their last couple of missions have involved B&E into places where people could legitimately be (a casino and a brothel).  Making it more of a secure facility makes it harder to explain random people wandering about and easier to explain security stuff being hardwired or offline.  Thus, needs a (meta)human touch.

A bit of a rejig to get at least a second IP could work, as might a discussion about people getting to be the best at what they do.  But of course, that needs to be backed up by the numbers.  Hmm.

As for getting her ridden by a Guardian Spirit or something, my worry with that is that it would essentially make the houngan's Channeling metamagic a waste of his Karma.  And that would be very sad indeed.  Definitely don't want to hurt everyone else's fun but do want to make sure that it's more fairly spread around the group.  Hmm.
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farothel

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« Reply #7 on: <11-21-11/1336:43> »
In our group we have a similar problem.  Our infiltration specialist has only 1 IP as well (having gone the bioware route instead of the cyber route for background purposes) and he's our secondary combat characer.  In our last run we had to get a classical car out of an impound lot guarded by SWAT (or at least their French counterparts as it was in Paris).  And while in combat the player had indeed to wait a lot while the others had multiple IPs (a cybered street sammie, an astrally projecting mage and a rigger in VR), he did have a lot of things to do. 
In fact, while we were beating up guards (and running a motercycle into a concrete barrier), stunbolting spirits and mages and hacking cars and driving them into each other, he was in fact the one who sneaked up to the truck containing the car (and three more) and got it out of the compound.

So it's possible to include someone like that with only one IP and yes, she will have to wait from time to time, but by selecting the correct target she has to be included.  In this example the classic car sat in a truck with an armour spell around the back and as it was a 1970's car, it didn't come with a node for the rigger to play with, so they had to get it out in the truck and take it out later.
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #8 on: <11-21-11/1557:33> »
There's always combat drugs, too.

Zilfer

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« Reply #9 on: <11-21-11/1620:14> »
There's always combat drugs, too.

And you don't have to play up the addiction rolls like I do in my game.... I've actually got the same character who has a composure test of 5 dice.... on a test of (1) to get addicted to alcohol and sex. Two different tests, he tested how often he could pass that test after he got addicted to alcohol and got a hit every time. Seems luck leaves him whenever he has to make the test for real... XD

And that folks is why you don't let your players buy hits.... XD

Anyways, combat drugs was a good suggestion :D
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CanRay

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« Reply #10 on: <11-21-11/1713:20> »
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #11 on: <11-22-11/1720:08> »
My current character is an adept infiltration specialist, which I've had a lot of fun playing. I'll make the following comments based more on game mechanics than color/flavor, which vary from person to person and game to game.

Focusing on the distribution of power points, Gliding and Wall Running are both stunningly expensive (1 point each) and are only useful in very specific circumstances.

Gliding allows you to run (Magic) meters over a surface that won't support the character's weight. That's 5 meters for our Magic 5 elf, but she can already make it 6 meters with a running jump without too much of a challenge. A running jump is Agility (6) + Gymnastics (3) + Natural Athlete (1) = 10 dice to make the jumping test. That will reliably produce 3 successes, which is enough to make it 6 meters. Even a standing jump will make it 3 meters with the same dice. There are very particular circumstances where Gliding would be better but none that are common enough to justify spending 20% of her power points on it.

Similarly, the math behind Wall Running doesn't really justify it. In this case it's a Strength (4) + Running (3 + 1) test with the hits being the number of meters the adept may climb. That means the adept here can run up 2 to 3 meters of wall, which is more than I can do but seems decidedly underwhelming. At 2 meters I would expect the adept to stick her arms above her head and just do a pull-up; at 3 meters I would have her put on a pair of gecko gloves and do it in about ten seconds. (7 climbing dice + 2 for gecko gloves - 4 if it's a sheer surface = rolling 5 as an Extended Test versus a threshold of 3, which is doable. Or just have her stand on someone's shoulders.) Wall Running might be nifty to gain a tactical advantage in the middle of a firefight, but in non-combat situations it's expensive and largely redundant with other skills.

Dropping those two powers frees up 2 power points. I personally wouldn't choose either of the Improved Ability powers (Hardware and Lockpick) because they cost finite power points (10% of her total) and can be largely replaced by spending 4 karma to buy specializations in those skills. Furthermore, these two skills can be readily boosted with a maglock passkey (for Hardware) and an Autopicker (for Lockpick), so the additional dice she's gaining from her adept powers is, for the most part, lost among other bonuses.

Voilà, that's 2.5 power points, which is enough to pick up Improved Reflexes at level 2. There are other places to pick up additional power points, such switching out Multi-Tasking (which, like the above powers, is very niche) or using the optional rule to pick up an extra power point at initiation (instead of Adept Centering, which I'm guessing goes unused more often than not). There are also geasa and The Way of the Adept qualities, both of which I would endorse.

Then there's the larger question of what the character intends to do with those extra initiative passes. Currently her only combat skill is Unarmed Combat, which means she has to get up close and personal with her Body 3. It can be fun to be all stealthy and flank your opponents while your teammates keep them pinned down, but she would really benefit from Pistols for those situations where punching someone in the face isn't a prudent option.

Beyond that, some of her qualities don't make sense from a dice optimization standpoint. Catlike and Natural Athlete both cost 10 BP. Those points would be better spent raising the Stealth and Athletics skill groups, respectively, which would in turn boost all of the underlying skills by 1 instead of the subset of skills that are affected by those qualities. If she's looking for flavor, consider taking the Mentor Spirit quality and allow her to benefit from the mentor spirit bonuses. Selecting Cat would give her the color from Catlike plus some nice dice bonuses and only costs half as much.

Hope that helps. I like my elven adept infiltration specialist and hope that your girlfriend will eventually like hers too.

Mirikon

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« Reply #12 on: <11-23-11/0303:28> »
There are plenty of ways to deal with the situation, without reconfiguring the character.

1. Isolated nodes. For real super-secret stuff, corps will often put them on nodes completely cut off from the matrix at large, meaning you have to be on site to access the data, at a dedicated terminal.

2. Guards that can't be hacked. Paracritters and spirits are going to be problematic for hackers and drones to deal with. An infiltration specialist is geared to get past them.

3. Iceburgs. Super-secret nodes usually have some nasty black IC. And spiders using Black Hammer.

4. Hacking works both ways. Make the hackers/riggers worry about a spider pulling the same tricks on the team.

5. Area jammers. For a really secure place, nix matrix communication, except by hard lines. Added bonus, screws with your team's tacnet and communications, as well as making drones less useful.

6. Multiple targets. It may be cliche, but having a switch in one part of the building that opens the mechanical door in another part of the building is an excellent way to screw with people trying to infiltrate your system. Making those controls 'closed circuit' via hard lines in the walls means that people either have to make a lot of noise blowing a door, or they have to sneak someone into the room to handle opening the door.

7. Encourage running instead of fighting. Shadowrunners should NOT be getting in knock down drag out fights. They should be shooting long enough to get what they came for and get away. Covering fire for the infiltrator while they get the art piece out of the case while the guards are bearing down on them is a great way to keep the infiltration specialist involved.


Really, though, the best solution would be to do all this, and reconfigure the character slightly to get her at least a second IP.
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farothel

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« Reply #13 on: <11-23-11/1150:27> »
Building on the stuff from Tecumseh, you can also give an infiltration specialist the nerve strike power.  I like the idea of someone sneaking up to a guard and then using the Vulcan nerve pinch to drop him.  A shot of laes later and he won't remember you when he wakes up.  Can be very useful for those situations where you can't make a noise and since it drops agility or reaction and is not resisted with body, it can be used to take out trolls.
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Julius Q Enderby

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« Reply #14 on: <12-30-11/0327:54> »
The infiltrator in our group only has the one IP but our group is odd in that so do most others. Also odd is that there is no uber combat specialist so his automatics and unarmed combat come across as quite cinematic relative to the other PCs.
He just plays the covert ops specialist straight out of SR4A. (2 of my players couldn't be bothered with creating from scratch so just lifted the pre-gens. They do okay.)

What I quite enjoyed though is the other use he's made for his character: he shadows NPCs after meets/encounters. Therefore he's at times the one to provide some good info on where Johnson ended up after the briefing and after the run, he finds out where the delivered McGuffin ends up, revealing strong hints as to the true nature of their employer and/or motivation behind the runs. Johnsons can be quite crafty about covering their tracks vs PC hackers and magicians. The infiltrator shines when the Johnson is incorrectly positive that s/he is not being tailed. This has helped the group on more than one occasion to decide one way or the other on a course of action and feel good about it.