[Ronin]

Hi guys and gals

I've got a little dilemma on my hands.  One of the guys who will be running the shadows in an adventure im running (Anarchy: subsidized) really wants to play as a troll infiltrator ninja.  Only thing is, trolls aren't great at sneaking: they're huge, heavy and can't fit in ventilation ducts.  Part of the adventure involves stealing a few strands of a girl's hair (or other source of DNA) which I can't imagine a troll being subtle enough to do without alerting the pop star's small army of bodyguards. I assume trolls receive a negative dice modifier for over two metres tall. I know that as the GM I should let them create whatever characters they want and I don't want to become a dictator but this will be his first time playing shadowrun and I don't think he realises just how unsuited trolls are to infiltrating.  I don't want to just tell him he can't have his character but I also don't want the other players to be annoyed by having to pay the big fragging troll who keeps setting off alarms and having to use the main entrance because he wont fit through the vents or windows.

Has anyone had a similar experience to this and how did you resolve it? Or has anyone had, or know of someone who had, a troll infiltrator and did they somehow make it work?

[CitizenJoe]

I would watch that show.  I think it would be hilarious. 

[tzizimine]

Well... just because trolls are big doesn't mean they can't fit through a ventalation duct. It just makes it a LOT harder. Escape Artist is the skill to squeeze into tight points. Simple put a threshold modifier for relative size (Humans/Elves/Orcs: +0, Dwarves -2, Trolls +2). If he can still hit that then so be it.


Trolls can also still be stealthy, but similar things apply. Perception dice mods against a large target could easily be +2 or higher. I am always of the mind set that give the players enough rope to hang themselves by.

[tzizimine]

Also, as an addendum, have the troll PC attempt to sneak into another PCs place, using the party as the 'security' to bypass. If the troll can't make it, then the party knows they have a problem (and the player should see it as well).

[CitizenJoe]

Actually, NOBODY can fit through ventilation ducts... unless there is a meat grinder on the lead end. 

[tzizimine]

That depends entirely on the size of the ventilation duct...


I have personally crawled through the ventilation duct in my college dormitory, but that was 3' x 3' wide and meant to push air through 6 stories, but the smaller ones into individual rooms would require a small drone or a rodent.

[Ronin]

I like the idea of making the troll sneak past the whole team as an initiation test before they allow him to join the group.  Might use that rule with all charaters, with different tests depending on their speciality.

"You think you're a decent shot? How 'bout a game of miracle shooter?" 

wouldn't work with faces trying to con their way past the team - they'll see the deception a mile off.  They could always take a walk downtown and observe the face con a poor slot out of all his money on the street or charm her way into the VIP lounge of an exclusive club

[CitizenJoe]

The Face could pull a "Moonwalking Bear trick"

[FastJack]

Just remember, with the proper training, anything can be accomplished.

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[JustADude]

I assume trolls receive a negative dice modifier for over two metres tall.

They do, it's called having a Racial Maximum of 5 for Agility.

[Carmody]

Well, not all characters concepts are equally efficients: a troll will be better at smashing that at facing, infiltrating or magic. But it may also be very interesting to play such characters, not fully optimized.

I know that as the GM I should let them create whatever characters they want and I don't want to become a dictator

I do not really agree with that: for sure you shall not become a dictator but it is your role as GM to tell the player that his character is not viable and that it will not work (and that the player will not have fun).
In this particular case, it is up to you to find out exactly how you want to handle infiltration by a troll and explain your player which negative dice he will suffer. Then your player will decide whether or not this is worth it.

[Xzylvador]

I think the main problem here is the assumption that infiltration must always be the same as not being seen, and this is just not the case.

The main penalty for being a "sneaky" troll is that you get a lower agility score.
Yeah, sure, he's going to stand out when trying to infiltrate into a Humanis Policlub building and should get modifiers for "not fitting in"; but the reverse could be said for a human or an elf trying to infiltrate somewhere in the Ork Underground or anyone non-native-american trying to infiltrate into a Sioux bar. Who stands out and how much they stand out largely depends on the situation.
And a large part of infiltration, even when trying to sneak around an enemy compound, isn't about being invisible, it's about timing: waiting for that exact moment that the guard looks to his right or sneezes and then dash across that open space between those buildings. Here trolls even have an advantage: they can run a lot faster. They'll have an easier time getting over walls too, if walls/fences are built with human size in mind (which is usually the case), a troll might find them to be much less of an obstacle.

Half of the stealth group depends on Intuition instead of Agility too! Again, knowing where and when to move and when not to, where to stand, what to look at, etc.
A troll is always obvious? I can imagine half the bodyguards in the world being trolls; and bodyguard are invisible to most high-class people. Not because they can't be seen but because they just aren't important enough to be noticed. Put him in a tuxido instead of military armor and have him stand next to someone wealthy-looking and noone would think twice about him.
Heck, even when noticed somewhere he doesn't belong, who's to say Joe-Wageslaves first thought wouldn't be "A troll, trying to infiltrate? Yeah, right, Joe. Even they aren't stupid enough to think of pulling that off! Yeah... He probably belongs here, maybe he's the guy they hired to deal with the devil rats."

[CitizenJoe]

In the group initiation thing, have the face and the troll team up.  While the face tries to pull a 3 card monte on the group, their focus is going to be on him, watching to see where he hides the queen, but meanwhile the troll 'infiltrates' in as a 'moonwalking bear'. 

[x6u]

Damn, this is one racist thread. Trolls are people, too, you know. They don't live under bridges, and if they do, it's only because they can't get a job due to human supremacists like you. Despite what you may think, trolls can be perfectly adequate infiltrators, professors, hackers, scientists...and yes, even lovers. If Bubba the Love Troll can become the madam for a high class escort service after he got out of prison, you can let your bloody player be a bloody troll infiltrator.

[Ronin]

Damn, this is one racist thread. Trolls are people, too, you know. They don't live under bridges, and if they do, it's only because they can't get a job due to human supremacists like you.

Thats not racist!! Im not some Humanis goon you know, im actually offended  All I was saying was that troll have the odds stacked against them when compared to, say, elves.  Besides, the players agreed to have an initiation test to see who's infiltrator to use.  It turns out that the grinning Chinese elf won.  The troll aint too happy about it and will become a very interesting and dangerous thorn in the runners' sides