[theKernel]

What complex forms should I invest BP in? I want to be an all around 'mancer but leaning towards info gathering. I'll thread everything else so I can have high complex forms. I'll be reviewing unwired for ideas as to my stream and stuff.

[Mirikon]

Open the core book to the Sample Characters section. The Technomancer there has a good array of programs. Stealth and Armor are two of your most important forms, without question, even if you don't plan on doing any serious node raiding or cybercombat.

[theKernel]

This will be more like go in get data get out things like that a ton of threading will be happening.

[Mirikon]

Well, in that case, I would take the complex forms you see in the sample technomancer. To get the data, you have to get where the data is, which means hacking. And if you're hacking, you need to get in without causing alarms, and to defend yourself when attacked. The forms listed on the sample technomancer are a good start.

[theKernel]

hmm Alright I'll get on this tomorrow and write on this topic while I do it

[UmaroVI]

The technomancer in the core book is badly built, and really shouldn't be used as a model. The question you should be asking yourself is:

1) Do I care about being able to do this really, really well? Or just passably? If the latter, don't buy it - thread it up a little when you need it. If the former, buy it at 6.

2) Do I care about being able to do this very fast? Or can I afford to wait a combat turn or so? Do any of the sprites I can summon have this? You should only have CFs if either none of your sprites do, or you expect to need it on a NOW NOW NOW basis. Browse is a good example of a trap - you can just ask a sprite to browse for you.

You should absolutely have the following CFs:
Stealth, Exploit, and Spoof are needed for hacking, and you care about being really good, not just OK.
Analyze is needed for Matrix Perception Tests. No analyze = can't see what's going on, and no defense against being hacked. You can't thread it because you need to make these checks reactively sometimes.

If you care, at all, about rigging - in even a "might want to sometimes" way - you should have Command.

Other CFs you might want to consider:
Disarm: useful for hacking (disarm someone's Analyze once you sneak in so you can't be found)
Shield: Matrix defense - but note sprites can matrix fight much better than you, and you generally want to hide behind a paladin sprite, not fight yourself.

In my opinion, there are no other complex forms worth learning. Everything else either has a maximum threshold of usefulness that you can hit just by threading, can be covered by sprites, or is overly narrow in application.

You might want to check my sig for a few example technomancers (Technoshaman and Info Savant)

[theKernel]

this is really helpful! Hes going to rely on his threading and sprites a lot and have stealth exploit spoof analyze disarm and shield.

[baronspam]

As usual, Umaro is da bomb when it comes to the mechanics of characters.  I agree with his approach.  Take fewer complex forms, and take the ones you have at max.  You can thread a mid range complex form for a quick use.  The ones you buy should be the ones you want to be really good at.  You can boost these ever further through threading. 

I personally really like the Shield complex form.  Umaro is right, you want to avoid matrix combat as a technomancer as much as possible, but Shield makes you very hard to hit.  Its a nice insurance policy for some IC that gets triggered or a sysadmin that busts in on you at a bad moment.  Just because you don't plan to stand and fight doesn't mean you won't ever get attacked. 

BTW, you do have access to the Unwired book, don't you?  If you don't I would save your butter and egg money and pick it up as soon as possible.  Not only does it have some nice complex forms like Shield, it has really cool immersions and some great sprites as well.  Unless you have a very strong RP reason to do otherwise, make sure you belong to a tradition that can either get you a Paladin or Tank sprite.  Have one on tap when you go hacking about in the hot zone.  Sprites are a big part of how you keep your brain unfried if the poo hits the fan during a hack.

[theKernel]

Yea I wanted to be something inbetween an info savant and the good ole 'mancer. But can't I use all the sprites as a normal mancer? Also I have unwired

[baronspam]

Each technomancer stream is somewhat analogous to a magical tradition.  Just as a mage gets five types of spirits they can summon, a technomancer gets five types of sprites then can compile, based on what stream they are a part of.   If you are running just the rules in SR4A basically there is just one stream and 5 types of sprites.  If you add the rules from Unwired you do not get to choose from all the types of sprites, you choose a stream and you have access to five from the total types of sprites available.

[UmaroVI]

There's new sprite types in unwired. I'm actually not big on Tank sprites - IMO, Paladin or Fault is where it's at. Paladin sprites can Castle to protect you - if you're using those, Shielding is less good. Fault sprites can kill people like whoa. Tank sprites just aren't terribly good at fighting.

The other good thing about the streams in Unwired is that you really don't want a Willpower stream. Any of the others are better.

[baronspam]

There's new sprite types in unwired. I'm actually not big on Tank sprites - IMO, Paladin or Fault is where it's at. Paladin sprites can Castle to protect you - if you're using those, Shielding is less good. Fault sprites can kill people like whoa. Tank sprites just aren't terribly good at fighting.

The other good thing about the streams in Unwired is that you really don't want a Willpower stream. Any of the others are better.

Fault is very good, and is your go to combat sprite out of the SR4A options.

[theKernel]

why don't you want a willpower stream?

[UmaroVI]

Because Willpower does very little for you, and is hard to raise.

Logic: you need at least 3 (4 complex forms probably doesn't cut it, 6 or more should be fine), it helps a lot of useful skills, there's 'ware to raise it, and other ware that combos nicely.

Charisma: raises bound sprite limit, and as binding costs no money, this is pro. Helps your social skills. You get to be an elf and get +2.

Intuition: Matrix initiative - mostly key for riggers. Also meatspace perception.

Willpower: Firewall? The only thing that can hack you is other technomancers, and having a few more points will absolutely not help you. What will help you is having a bunch of registered sprites chilling in your bionode that you can sic on anyone who tries hacking you.

[Mirikon]

Personally, I've played a character very similar to the 'stock' technomancer, forms-wise. Its always worked well for me. You can thread if you need to, and call in sprites to help you. However, that's just a personal opinion from someone who chooses function to follow form.

I do disagree with the idea of choosing a stream based on what the fading stat gets you. That's rollplaying, not roleplaying. A technomancer's stream is like a mage's tradition. It not only shapes how they use their abilities, but is a fundamental part of how they see the world around them. Come up with a character you want to play, and then worry about making the mechanics fit. This is the part that always annoys me with minmaxers. They tend to look at the mechanics first, and the character second.