[FastJack]

So, by all of this logic then, dwarves shouldn't be allowed to run until they reach 30-40 years old and elves shouldn't be out of diapers until they are 15?

This is precisely why I prefer to assume an even rate of aging among metahumans; they all go through puberty at the same age, they're all in highschool at the same time, etc.

Dwarves and Elves just remain in their prime for a longer period of time, and Orks/Trolls have similar lifeplans to humans, but have greater odds of dying in their 30's and 40's due to lifestyle problems (poor diet, street violence, lack of medical care, etc.)

So, the reason that the orks/trolls die off sooner is not genetics, but because they live horrible lives? Then why don't elves born in the barrens die off at such an atrocious rate as well? They are a minority race, after all.

[CitizenJoe]

So, the reason that the orks/trolls die off sooner is not genetics, but because they live horrible lives? Then why don't elves born in the barrens die off at such an atrocious rate as well? They are a minority race, after all.

They do.  It's just that they are so annoying that it just SEEMS like they live forever.

[jonathanc]

So, by all of this logic then, dwarves shouldn't be allowed to run until they reach 30-40 years old and elves shouldn't be out of diapers until they are 15?

This is precisely why I prefer to assume an even rate of aging among metahumans; they all go through puberty at the same age, they're all in highschool at the same time, etc.

Dwarves and Elves just remain in their prime for a longer period of time, and Orks/Trolls have similar lifeplans to humans, but have greater odds of dying in their 30's and 40's due to lifestyle problems (poor diet, street violence, lack of medical care, etc.)

So, the reason that the orks/trolls die off sooner is not genetics, but because they live horrible lives? Then why don't elves born in the barrens die off at such an atrocious rate as well? They are a minority race, after all.

Demographically, Elves/dwarves tend to be healthier and live in better conditions...the ones living in the Barrens and eating Stuffer Shack all their lives probably do drop from heart disease and strokes in their 40's, same as humans.

[TheWanderingJewels]

As a thought. the Goblinization process has to take one hell of a toll on the body for the ones who transform....maybe it takes something out of th person, causing a short lifespan

[Critias]

As a thought. the Goblinization process has to take one hell of a toll on the body for the ones who transform....maybe it takes something out of th person, causing a short lifespan

Just the opposite, actually.  Goblinized Orks and Trolls live longer than natural-born ones (they keep their human lifespan, basically).

[crisses]

As a thought. the Goblinization process has to take one hell of a toll on the body for the ones who transform....maybe it takes something out of th person, causing a short lifespan

Somewhere (possibly another thread: I believe in regards to my Shadowbrat rules saying that Orks and Trolls may "goblinize" at puberty) someone said that orks don't goblinize anymore -- that they're "born that way" now.  But the SR4A book says that 95% of an ork mother's children born homo sapiens sapiens express homo sapiens robustus at puberty....  I don't know whether that means that ork babies are usually "born simply human" and then "turn into orks" at puberty -- or if some # of the children are born on either side of the tracks, and those that seem "human" at birth have a 95% chance of becoming "ork anyway" at puberty.

It's like a friggin' Ork lottery....  If you birth 4-8 babies in a litter, MAYBE one will still be homo sapiens sapiens when they reach 20.  Assuming the father isn't a human, and perhaps that's an "even if the dad is sapiens..."

Either way, you might be "looking forward" to being "just a human" and then "turn ork" at some point (whether you want to call it goblinizing or something else...).  That would ALSO effect a character's demeanor and change the tint on their perspective goggles.

What if your sibling was the 1/20 who "stayed human"?  What type of resentment might you have?  Would your parents just save up for that one child's college education?  Would that human be sending money home to the whole clantastic ork family while working their white-collar job?  Does your ork character resent corporate wage slaves because that's where brother Johnny ended up?

A little Steve Martin's The Jerk here -- "I was born the only white kid in a black family."  or something like that...

Just the opposite, actually.  Goblinized Orks and Trolls live longer than natural-born ones (they keep their human lifespan, basically).

Where'd you see that?

[raggedhalo]

I might be using non-canonical information here but I think Brackhaven was born an ork but got 'fixed'.

The original Brackhaven was an ork.  So his racist motherfragger parents gave him to an orphanage, got a human baby, and carried on like he was the original kid.

[Crimsondude]

A little Steve Martin's The Jerk here -- "I was born the only white kid in a black family."  or something like that...

"I was born a poor black child."

I might be using non-canonical information here but I think Brackhaven was born an ork but got 'fixed'.

The original Brackhaven was an ork.  So his racist motherfragger parents gave him to an orphanage, got a human baby, and carried on like he was the original kid.

The original Kenny was murdered by Charles Brackhaven (his father) in the hospital while he was undergoing Goblinization. So they found a new kid in, mentally and physically modified him to be the new Kenny, and "Voila!," now he's Governor of Seattle. As I recall, the canon ending to that run in Super Tuesday is that the truth was revealed during the 2057 campaign and Kenneth Brackhaven spun the Hell out of it to come off as a sympathetic victim.

[CanRay]

The original Kenny was murdered by Charles Brackhaven (his father) in the hospital while he was undergoing Goblinization. So they found a new kid in, mentally and physically modified him to be the new Kenny, and "Voila!," now he's Governor of Seattle. As I recall, the canon ending to that run in Super Tuesday is that the truth was revealed during the 2057 campaign and Kenneth Brackhaven spun the Hell out of it to come off as a sympathetic victim.

That's the way I remember it as well.  Smarmy bastard turning the death of a child into voting points.

[TheWanderingJewels]

Sounds like President James 'The Smiler' Callahan  from Transmetropolian

[Angelone]

Just the opposite, actually.  Goblinized Orks and Trolls live longer than natural-born ones (they keep their human lifespan, basically).

Where'd you see that?

First or Second ed core IIRC. My older books are in storage or I'd dig it up.

[CanRay]

The fact that Bull is still alive. 

[Critias]

The fact that Bull is still alive. 

He's a little irritating sometimes, he hates elves, and his sense of humor is all messed up, but I hardly see that as a reason for us to kill hi--oh!  Oh, wait.  You meant the character.  Right, right.  Carry on.

[CanRay]

The fact that Bull is still alive. 

He's a little irritating sometimes, he hates elves, and his sense of humor is all messed up, but I hardly see that as a reason for us to kill hi--oh!  Oh, wait.  You meant the character.  Right, right.  Carry on.

Yeah, the character Bull is in his 40s, which in orc years is dead, forget still working the shadows, even as a fixer.

[Critias]

The fact that Bull is still alive. 

He's a little irritating sometimes, he hates elves, and his sense of humor is all messed up, but I hardly see that as a reason for us to kill hi--oh!  Oh, wait.  You meant the character.  Right, right.  Carry on.

Yeah, the character Bull is in his 40s, which in orc years is dead, forget still working the shadows, even as a fixer.

I wouldn't say "dead," but "old," yes.  Keep in mind, "average lifespan" is not "absolutely drops dead."  It's average lifespan.  A 40ish year old ork, even one that was born ork instead of goblinizing -- ignoring the dangers inherent in being a Shadowrunner, for the moment -- is no more automatically dead than a 60ish human.  And, again, this is all ignoring leonization (which someone with 20+ years as a shadowrunner, profits and all, would certainly have been able to take advantage of).

Bull, even if he was born ork, isn't automatically dead or even dead weight, any more than, say, Fianchetto is, or FastJack, or Damien Knight.  Age, even accelerated age for an ork, does not automatically mean death, or even utter obsolescence.