[Wakshaani]

other thing is that its an animal tohim not a person who has alterior motives

"That's what they WANT you to think! Me? I only let that orange furball close to me so I could snap its damn neck."
-- Clockwork

[Ragnarok]

So what's new between Netcat and Clockwork?

[Wakshaani]

NDA prevents much talking here, darnit.

My Current Project (tm) includes the both of them, however. It's currently in teh hands of the big people, at which point I have to do revisions and re-writes as needed, which won't happen until after GenCon.

Check back in a month-ish? I have no idea how long this stage takes.

[Mirikon]

Heh. I was at work the other day, and thought of the best 'dish served cold' kind of revenge plot for Netcat and Clockwork.

Step 1: Fixer contacts Clockwork about a job hunting a cabal of technomancers.

Step 2: Johnson (who is posing as an MCT Johnson, but looks to work for Horizon) gives intel to Clockwork informing him that the technomancers are supposedly working out of an abandoned Ares facility in the Sioux. Because of the... delicate nature of the op, and its being far from a sprawl where corporate operatives are less likely to draw the attention of the Wildcats, they can't send in a black bag team unless someone scouts the place out.

Step 3: Clockwork deploys to the area with a merc unit to be the black bag team. Because of the technomancer threat, the mercs are going with complete radio silence. Because of the terrain, signal degradation and sightlines become problematic, requiring someone using scout drones to be closer to the facility than they might be otherwise. Clockwork is to send up a flare if he finds that the TMs are at the base.

Step 4: The base has signs of life, and a TM tries hacking one of Clockwork's drones, but is apparently forced out. Clockwork sends up a flare.

Step 5: Netcat sends him a message, thanking Clockwork for falling into this trap, and letting him know that his coordinates have been passed to a group of Legion hackers, who, four minutes ago, launched a Thor missile from an Aesir satellite that they managed to spoof. He now has forty-five seconds to escape the blast zone.

Step 6: A 'training exercise/bughunt' in an unpopulated area kills one hobgoblin.


Yes, I know there are holes in this, but you gotta admit it'd be badass.

[Simagal]

After finally getting Corporate Intrigue I don't think Netcat will be the one end Clockwork. He will cross a line in a threat, then Puck will take care of business. 

[chinlamp]

To be honest, and I know it won't happen considering the direction that the story has been going, I want Clockwork to win in this one.  I don't want Netcat being the survivor.  As it is, there are only two major sources of conflict on JackPoint that ever seem to come up regularly: Pistons hating on Haze, and Clockwork in almost any situation.

Removing Clockwork would be a really bad step, as it would just push JackPoint towards even more of a 'goody two shoes shadowrunner network' feel, and it has enough of that already.  Plus, removing Clockwork would probably mean that we get another runner who has anger issues, and will be antagonistic simply to fill the role Clockwork left behind, whereas losing Netcat means that whoever fills her place can be a good person or even worse than Clockwork, as well as not having to be a technomancer, as that position is still occupied by Puck (who writers would now have a reason to use more and finish give more character development).

It also opens up a huge amount of character options for Slamm-0, who would now be a single dad with a very young child.  It would give him a reason to grow up a fair bit and have large amounts of character development, while also restraining him from going out and hunting down Clockwork as revenge, as he has a kid to take care of (I doubt he'd want to dishonour Netcats memory by becoming a dead beat dad to hunt down Clockwork).

It would be even better if Clockwork was able to manipulate things so that he didn't violate any of JackPoints rules by taking out Netcat, and thus the other runners couldn't go and exact revenge on him without FastJack having to step in on Clockworks side.  Sure, Clockwork would take a large hit to his JackPoint rep and would probably never be able to call on a fair few other members for help, but he's proven that he doesn't care about that and doesn't like relying on others, so that wouldn't bother him.

TLDR: If Netcat wins, JackPoint becomes an uninteresting goody two shoes fest, if Clockwork wins, there are a million and a half story and character development paths instantly available.

[Black]

Maybe Slammo can go the Lone Wolf and Cub path?

Would be more interesting if a different jackpointer betrayed Netcat and framed Clockwork... 

Yeap, I agree.  Lots of potential story paths.

[chinlamp]

Maybe Slammo can go the Lone Wolf and Cub path?

Would be more interesting if a different jackpointer betrayed Netcat and framed Clockwork... 

Yeap, I agree.  Lots of potential story paths.

But let's face it, things with the books have hardly been going the 'dark and gritty' path of late.  Clockwork will die, Netcat will be there forever, her kid will join JackPoint as a MarySue at age 3 and everyone will be one big happy family. 

[Mirikon]

Um, they're definitely not going 'dark and gritty', but you'd be hard pressed to say they're going 'sweetness and light', either.

But really, I think you're missing one key point. Jackpoint is NOT Shadowland. Shadowland was an open forum for anyone who could get to the right node. Which meant you had assholes from every fringe group and crazies in there side by side with 'normal' folks and government men. Jackpoint is a private network, where people are there to share info, and build connections.

Looking back to old Shadowland posts, Clockwork definitely isn't a fan of the otaku, but before the Crash he wasn't anywhere near as rabid. In Jackpoint, he used to serve an actual purpose, being a source of knowledge on all things rigger-related, but he's become more and more rabid towards technomancers. Now think about the people in your life. Do you willingly go spend time with the neo-nazi chauvanist asshole who can't go two minutes without making racist or sexist statements? I'm not saying that Jackpoint should be a 'let's all be friends' kind of thing, but do we really need 'major sources of conflict' in the group? I don't know about you, but I got my fill of that kind of conflict and drama in high school.

To make a point, going through Shadowland posts, while the sniping between Sons of Sauron and Humanis members, or the constant dragon-baiting of Dragonslayer and his ilk add to the realism, the interchanges I like best are the ones that convey meaningful information, or that hint at the bigger picture. Sometimes those interchanges involve interpersonal conflict, but they don't get to the point that the nutjobs get. Laughing Man and Wordsmyth rarely have a nice word to say to eachother, for instance, but they keep it as respectful as they can, as one might expect in a group of people who don't have to like eachother, but do have to work together. You can have 'conflict' without trying to keep the rabid dog from getting loose.

[Wakshaani]

One of the things I wanted to work on, in fact, was that Clockwork is on Jackpoint for a reason, and "I hate Technomancers" isn't it. He's also been pigeonholed as the only one who has a problem with Technomancers, something that isn't true, and Netcat's reputation has been that she's, obviously, on the side of good so can't have flaws.

These were things that I knew I wanted to tackle.

What I hope is that, after my Current Project (tm) sees the light, people will be able to say, "You know what? Maybe Clockwork ain't that bad." That they'll understand a bit more on why he's on Jackpoint (But I confess that it's more tell than show... wordcounts are harsh) and that things might be a tad more
shades of grey' than we'd been thinking. One of the things I do, personally, is run a 'noir' flavored game, where the heroes have feet of clay, but they're still heroes. Everyone needs some personality flaws, but bad guys also need a little light inside. One of those "Even Al Capone called his mother every Sunday" type of things.

Jackpoint is filled with some unsavory people. Rigger X's history of spying on everyone and excessive bodycount runs. Haze is an accused rapist and known to use his magic to mind control people to do unsavory acts. Riser and Thorn are both cold-hearted killers. Lyran's a con artist who doesn't think twice about bilking someone out of their nuyen if it gets her richer. The key, for me, is that while no one is untarnished, even the tarnished folks have silver underneath.

If that makes sense.

[Longshot23]

Maybe Slammo can go the Lone Wolf and Cub path?

Would be more interesting if a different jackpointer betrayed Netcat and framed Clockwork... 

Yeap, I agree.  Lots of potential story paths.

But let's face it, things with the books have hardly been going the 'dark and gritty' path of late.  Clockwork will die, Netcat will be there forever, her kid will join JackPoint as a MarySue at age 3 and everyone will be one big happy family. 

it's entirely possibly, due to the vagaries of genetics, that Netcat's and Slamm-0!'s child will not be a technomancer, or even inclined to be a hacker.  Doesn't that knock the 'Mary-Sue' theory on its head?

Artifacts Unbound, Corporate intrigue and Twilight Horizon, as well as Missions Season 4, don't count as dark and gritty?  Must have been reading them wrong . . .

[Patrick Goodman]

Everyone's assuming the kid's going to survive to become a (still mis-named, but I'm getting tired of trying) Mary Sue.

This is not, in fact, a guarantee, our general policy of not imperiling kids notwithstanding. I don't know anything either way, as I'm not doing anything with this storyline but occasionally kibbitzing, but it's a bitch of a world sometimes. Characters die. I know at least one of my favorites is likely not going to make it out of the current series of stories alive, and none of my characters are going to come out of it unchanged (or, in some cases, whole).

I had a point when I started this, but I don't seem to have kept a hold of it very well. Anyway, everyone seems to be assuming that Clockwork's a goner and Netcat's kid becomes Technomancer Jesus or something. And that's not necessarily the case.

[Wakshaani]

I keep thinking of Patton Oswalt's comedy routine about his kid when I think of Slamm-O. Patton's dad was a marine, for instance, while Patton himself is a tubby white suburban kid who played D&D and writes poetry. He's convinced that his own kid will wind up being some big jock that'll pay him back for all the misery he caused his own father.

"Hey dad, is this your lightsaber?"
"Yeah, it's a limited edition one signed by..."
"It's on theroof now! *fling* Hah hah!"
"Oh, come on son. Don't bully daddy..."
"Why doncha climb up there and get it, ya wuss?"
"Well, the ladder's wood, and you know how I am about splinters. Can't you go up and get it for me?"
"Maybe. If you gimmie twenty push-ups."
"Oh, come on son..."
"Do it, ya wuss!"
*sigh*

Slamm-O!'s kid will wind up being an investment banker or something. "Oh man, where did I go wrong?"

[Mirikon]

One of the things I wanted to work on, in fact, was that Clockwork is on Jackpoint for a reason, and "I hate Technomancers" isn't it. He's also been pigeonholed as the only one who has a problem with Technomancers, something that isn't true, and Netcat's reputation has been that she's, obviously, on the side of good so can't have flaws.

Clockwork isn't the only member of Jackpoint who has a problem with technomancers. Glitch, for one, is on record as not being a major fan. Clockwork is, however, the only member  of Jackpoint who raves on about them like a Humanis member talking about trolls. There's a lot of middle ground between "I got no problem with them" and "Kill them all". Most of Jackpoint falls into that middle ground. They don't completely trust TMs, but then a lot of people still feel uneasy about mages, as a whole, though they know individual mages who are all right.

All the Jackpointers have flaws. Just because we haven't had screen time with those flaws doesn't mean they don't have them. Afterall, we don't know any flaws that Fastjack, Kat o' Nine Tails, Winterhawk, Goat Foot, or Sounder have, just to pull some examples, but I haven't heard anyone saying that they are sweetness and light types.

[CanRay]

Slamm-O!'s kid will wind up being an investment banker or something. "Oh man, where did I go wrong?"

More like, "Wow, he's a better thief than I am!"