[UmaroVI]

You buy the magic rating, and reduce it from implants you're still at that rating (in this case rating 5).

Rules quote for the "you're still at that rating," please.

[All4BigGuns]

Really, that would be common sense, as otherwise is simply abuse that most GMs will smack you down for.

[Crash_00]

It's really not common sense at all. I can't find any reference at all to still being at that rating.

It's balanced already. A starting mage has a maximum magic rating of 6. If that character starts with a magic or 5 then takes a point of ware, his magic drops to 4 and his maximum magic drops  to 5. Raising his magic again puts him at 5 (which is the cap). If he then takes another point of ware he drops to four and is still at his cap (because the cap drops to four also). He can only raise his cap by initiating and then he has to raise his magic separately. So after that four, he initiates and takes another point of ware. He drops to a three but his max is four (he can now raise his magic up again). There is only so far you can go though, because if your essence hits under one you lose your magic for good and burnout.

[Tecumseh]

The rules are not explicit on whether the lowered value of Magic/Resonance is an augmented value or if it is the new natural value. In other words, if I buy Magic 5 and lose a point of Essence, is my Magic 5 (4) or just plain 4?

The distinction is important because the rule for improving attributes is that "Raising a natural attribute may raise the augmented attribute value" (p. 269, SR4A). If you favor the interpretation that your natural Magic attribute is still 5 (augmented rating 4), then raising it back to 6 (after initiating) would cost 30 karma. If you prefer the ruling that the new Magic rating is 4, then the cost to raise Magic to 5 would be 25 karma.

There is an example on page 177 that doesn't mention augmented ratings (it just says Magic is immediately reduced one point) and could be interpreted as an endorsement of the second approach. Chummer treats Magic/Resonance loss that way. I don't know of any examples of augmented Awakened characters in the book that might clarify things. That said, I think it's grey enough to be open to the GM's ruling as to what fits best at your game table.

[Crash_00]

Except that it never actually says you're treated as having a lower magic (which would be the case if it was an augmented score) it flat out says you lose a point of magic and reduce the max by one. If you lose it, it's not sitting their smiling at you from behind some parenthesis, but gone...for good. Never coming back.

[zarzak]

Who knew that my little question about a smuggling character would morph into a discussion about whether the magic loss counts as permanent or not.  Heheh. 

My understanding of it (and what we use) is that its permanent, so raising the new value of 4 to 5 would cost 25 karma (instead of 30).  But, that said ... would that interpretation mean that if you were to have all of your implants removed you would still be down a point of magic, even though you have no implants sucking your essence away?

[UmaroVI]

Yes, and in fact that part is explicitly stated. You can never recover magic lost from essence loss, ever.

[Crash_00]

But, that said ... would that interpretation mean that if you were to have all of your implants removed you would still be down a point of magic, even though you have no implants sucking your essence away?

Essence loss is permanent (unless you go through a ridiculously expensive treatment) and magic loss is permanent (even if you go through said treatment). If you pull out your ware, you essence stays where it is and you have an essence hole that you can fill with new ware (US versions of the book have holes for each type (bioware or cyberware) while german versions are universal essence holes). The essence isn't so much the implant sucking you essence away, as you losing part of yourself when you have them put in.

[All4BigGuns]

The point of having to pay for the higher rating is that if you don't, you'll run into the people who'll buy magic up to 2, get implants, pay 10 karma to buy it back to 2, buy more implants, rinse and repeat.

[zarzak]

*edit2* Modified the new character version again, got it down to 400 bp.  I wanted to keep the exceptional attribute quality so I wouldn't have to pay 40 karma for it later.

And for some reason I just cannot format the thing properly ... it looks fine when I'm editing it. 

*edit* I didn't do any of the bioware just yet ... I like the idea of buying a point of magic with karma later and then spending $ on the bioware.  (Plus I'm short on cash at the moment).

[Crash_00]

The point of having to pay for the higher rating is that if you don't, you'll run into the people who'll buy magic up to 2, get implants, pay 10 karma to buy it back to 2, buy more implants, rinse and repeat.

And the issue here is?

Player starts with a magic of 1.
Buys magic to 2
Takes one point of implants.
Magic and Magic max drop by one (1/5)
Buys magic to 2
Takes a point of implants
Magic and Magic max drop by one (1/4)
Buys magic to 2
Takes a point of implants
Magic and Magic max drop by one (1/3)
Buys magic to 2
Takes a point of implants
Magic and max drop by one (1/2)
Buys magic to 2

End result = Magic of 2 (which is only a step above being useless and is currently capped), 50 karma spent, and four points of ware.

[All4BigGuns]

The point of having to pay for the higher rating is that if you don't, you'll run into the people who'll buy magic up to 2, get implants, pay 10 karma to buy it back to 2, buy more implants, rinse and repeat.

And the issue here is?

Player starts with a magic of 1.
Buys magic to 2
Takes one point of implants.
Magic and Magic max drop by one (1/5)
Buys magic to 2
Takes a point of implants
Magic and Magic max drop by one (1/4)
Buys magic to 2
Takes a point of implants
Magic and Magic max drop by one (1/3)
Buys magic to 2
Takes a point of implants
Magic and max drop by one (1/2)
Buys magic to 2

End result = Magic of 2 (which is only a step above being useless and is currently capped), 50 karma spent, and four points of ware.

Maybe useless if a mage, but if an adept, it is an abuse, giving them the best of both worlds.

[Crash_00]

How is a magic of 2 the best of that world?

How is having practically no power starting off abuse (Magic one would mean no augmentations at creation without losing your adept ability forever. It seems like you are completely ignoring the fact that the Magic Max is lowering too, meaning that you can only do this for so long and the end result is still extremely...meh.

[Medicineman]

Maybe useless if a mage, but if an adept, it is an abuse, giving them the best of both worlds.

They're not getting the best of Two Worlds !
Maybe they save some karma but they're paying for it dearly .They're stuck with a small MAG Attribute.
and its a long and ...arduous road because they pay so much  Karma and ¥ and the MAG won't rise
It's like You're saying:
"a Streetsam who gets a specialisation and Smartlink is getting the best of 2 Worlds( +4 Dice )for only 2 Karma and 500 ¥ "

HokaHey
medicineman