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Total new to Shadowrun,what should I think about.

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rasmusnicolaj

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« Reply #15 on: <03-23-12/0637:19> »
Restricted Gear is in Runner's Companion. 5 BP to get one piece of gear at max Availability 20 (can be taken 3 times).

For a combat guy 3 IP is fine. The 4. IP is to expensive to get from the start, and often you will not need that anyway. Combat is over quick.

Rasmus
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ArkangelWinter

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« Reply #16 on: <03-23-12/0953:59> »
The main school of thought for street sammies is that you want 3IP. Lots of NPCS have 2IP, a few have 3. After 3, it gets less useful unless you'te hacking in AR

Ted Fast

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« Reply #17 on: <03-23-12/1242:01> »
Thanks for the answers guys, I'll keep that in mind.
I don't own Runner's Companion so no Restricted Gear for Sigmund.  :'(

Do you have recommendation for qualities? I'm thinking that Genetic Heritage to get Reakt for free would help with staying alive, but maybe I'm wrong.
I have 27 free BPs right nowbut I could get up to 30 without to much pain.
« Last Edit: <03-23-12/1256:08> by Ted Fast »

UmaroVI

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« Reply #18 on: <03-23-12/1259:01> »
Reakt is excellent, but it actually makes more sense to Genetic Heritage for Genetic Optimization (what stat depends on what you value, Reaction is always a solid choice). The reasons are:

(a) Genetic Heritage is 45000Y, so you are paying 10 bp for 9 bp of free stuff and a 20% discount down the road on several good things (Reakt and Adapsin in particular). Reakt is only 30000Y so you are getting less for the same price.

(b) Starting with Genetic Heritage means you can pay an extra 10 bp to have a bit more Reaction out of the gate.

(c) Reakt is Transgenic, but Genetic Optimization isn't. So if you start with Genetic Optimization as your Genetic Heritage, you get 20% off buying Reakt later. Reverse it, and no discount for the Genetic Optimization later.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #19 on: <03-23-12/1302:30> »
Reakt is excellent, but it actually makes more sense to Genetic Heritage for Genetic Optimization (what stat depends on what you value, Reaction is always a solid choice). The reasons are:

(a) Genetic Heritage is 45000Y, so you are paying 10 bp for 9 bp of free stuff and a 20% discount down the road on several good things (Reakt and Adapsin in particular). Reakt is only 30000Y so you are getting less for the same price.

(b) Starting with Genetic Heritage means you can pay an extra 10 bp to have a bit more Reaction out of the gate.

(c) Reakt is Transgenic, but Genetic Optimization isn't. So if you start with Genetic Optimization as your Genetic Heritage, you get 20% off buying Reakt later. Reverse it, and no discount for the Genetic Optimization later.

Damn...maybe I should've put Genetic Heritage on my SURGEd elf.
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Tsuzua

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« Reply #20 on: <03-23-12/1400:58> »
If you're not going logic, I'll drop Strength and Logic to 2, raise Intuition and Reaction to 5, and sell back First Aid and Armorer. I'll use the points saved to buy new skills (such as the stealth skill group) or cash.  You'll then end up with an initiative score of 14 which is pretty rad.

Time to cover Augmentation.  Overall,  Augmentation has a few good options and a lot of ware that's just nifty.

The Attention Coprocessor is a wonderful buy.  It's fairly essence friendly and gives you +3 to perception tests for 9000Y.  If you have the cash, I recommend getting it.  Most of the other cyberware is just nifty ware that you should buy only if you think it's cool. 

Move-By-Wire systems are worth keeping in mind.  The big thing they do is save essence.  MBW2 for example gives you Wired Reflexes 2, Skillwires 4, and Reaction Enhancers 2 for 3 essence.  That's a 1.4 essence savings for 25000Y!  You can't start with them without restricted gear, but they might be worth upgrading to if you're rich and need the essence. 

Dermal Sheaths is fancy legal (not restricted) dermal plating.  In general +1 Body for Soak rolls is virtually the same as +1 armor except when facing down -1/2AP and ignore armor attacks and determining if you take physical or stun from attacks.  Honestly since you're using Arsenal, you'll have a good armor score anyways.  If you find yourself with 1 point of essence left over and 20000Y, sure you can get Dermal Sheath 2, but otherwise I'll put it on the backburner.  If you really want armor, cyberlimbs are better even if this guy won't get the most out of one.  Some people don't like cyberlimb armor though.

All of the bioware is nifty expect for the Trauma Dampener which is excellent.  It turns 1 box of physical into stun and removes 1 point of stun taken per hit (to a min. of 1 box).  Since the vast majority of damage you'll take is stun, that's really handy.  I would grab it or the Pain Editor (they don't stack).  Starting with a trauma dampener is a good idea.  However, you can wait till play if you can't afford it, or skip it and get a Pain Editor during play.

Geneware has more noteworthy options.  Reakt is perfectly viable.  If you load up on Intuition linked skills, Qualia is a good idea.  Synch and Neo-EPO are nifty.  If you plan on loading up on geneware, Genetic Heritage is a good idea.  UmaroVI has covered the genetic optimization options.

I wouldn't really worry about nanoware. 

I will get to Arsenal once I find time.

Edit- On the topic of IPs, 3 IP is more than enough.  Depending on the nature of your game, you can get away with 2 IPs or even 1 (especially with the use of drugs).  3 IP's however a good number because you'll rarely want more and it's fairly cheap.
« Last Edit: <03-23-12/1549:07> by Tsuzua »

Ted Fast

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« Reply #21 on: <03-23-12/1534:36> »
Thanks for the great tip UmaroVI.
I am thinking about picking AGI for Optimization to push the chars offensive ability a bit, but maybe that would be excessive as I have a 'general' Automatic dice-pool of 14 right now.

If you're not going logic, I'll drop Strength and Logic to 2, raise Intuition and Reaction to 5, and sell back First Aid and Armorer. I'll use the points saved to buy new skills (such as the stealth skill group) or cash.  You'll then end up with an initiative score of 14 which is pretty rad
I have dropped Armory and First Aid but I can't drop STR to 2 on account of Sigmund being an Orc but I have shuffled around his stats a bit and this is what I have right now. What attribute will get optimized is undetermined.

BOD: 7 AGI:  5 REA: 5 STR :4 CHA: 2 INT: 5 LOG:  2 WILL: 3
(I wanted to keep my STR at 4 (6) so I could benefit from the high-strength-as-RC rule, is that unnecessary?)

I will keep what you have said about Augmentation in mind Tsuzua, especially the Trauma Dampener.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #22 on: <03-23-12/1538:38> »
Can't remember off hand which guns I've managed it on, but I've managed modding a few different SMGs and Assault Rifles (even a Battle Rifle) with enough RC to Full Burst without penalty--without Str -> RC.
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Tsuzua

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« Reply #23 on: <03-23-12/1552:28> »
I have dropped Armory and First Aid but I can't drop STR to 2 on account of Sigmund being an Orc but I have shuffled around his stats a bit and this is what I have right now. What attribute will get optimized is undetermined.

BOD: 7 AGI:  5 REA: 5 STR :4 CHA: 2 INT: 5 LOG:  2 WILL: 3
(I wanted to keep my STR at 4 (6) so I could benefit from the high-strength-as-RC rule, is that unnecessary?)

I will keep what you have said about Augmentation in mind Tsuzua, especially the Trauma Dampener.
I didn't realize you raised your CHA as well.  I was thinking you'll leave Cha at 1 and keep STR at 5.  There's little particular difference cha 1 and 2 besides GM aggro.  I guess you could drop Cha to 1 and buy some tailored pheromones (or pheromone receptors) to have enough of a roll to prevent GM aggro.

Ted Fast

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« Reply #24 on: <03-23-12/1757:01> »
Can't remember off hand which guns I've managed it on, but I've managed modding a few different SMGs and Assault Rifles (even a Battle Rifle) with enough RC to Full Burst without penalty--without Str -> RC.
Hmm yes I see, i guess that you used a auto-adjusting underbarrel-weight and I really wanna use those mod-slots for something else.  :P Still it's a good point.

The Ares Alpha I'm thinking about using right now
Ares Alpha
Accessories
   +Gas-Vent 3 System
   +Imaging Scope
   +Shock Pad
Modifications
   +Additional Clip
   +Barrel Extension
   +Extended Clip
   +Foregrip
   +Personalized Grip
Gun came with
   +Smartgun System
   DV: 6P   AP: -1   RC: 8(With STR: ) Ammo: 53x2(c) Price: 6500¥



I didn't realize you raised your CHA as well.  I was thinking you'll leave Cha at 1 and keep STR at 5.  There's little particular difference cha 1 and 2 besides GM aggro.  I guess you could drop Cha to 1 and buy some tailored pheromones (or pheromone receptors) to have enough of a roll to prevent GM aggro.
You have an interesting idea with the pheromones, don't know if I can afford them as I haven't totally nailed down all my gear/wares yet.

PS. Sorry for being so slow to respond, my internet is on the fritz or something
« Last Edit: <03-23-12/2140:52> by Ted Fast »

Tsuzua

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« Reply #25 on: <03-23-12/2147:47> »
You have an interesting idea with the pheromones, don't know if I can afford them as I haven't totally nailed down all my gear/wares yet.
As long as you're under the gear cap, you might consider them.  For example, tailored pheromones 3 is 45000Y or 9 BP.  You save 1 BP versus Charisma 2.  However, your rolls are now 3 rather than 1.  That's no face, but it's something.  All of this is dependent on how your group handles social skills and GM aggro levels.

Now for Arsenal.  Unlike Augmentation which more or less gave you options, Arsenal will make you more powerful.  The two most important things are stackable armor and weapon mods.   

But first, the weapons!  Because blades adds to your melee defense, you'll want to have a blade ready to defend yourself.  I know you're got a regular knife and that's good.  You might want a ceramic knife for MAD scanners.  A nodachi is -1AP better than a combat axe.  If you want something less glorious Nippon, there's the vibrosword which is forbidden.  A bayonet is a decent idea if you spare the mod slot or barrel slot.  Either way, be sure to get personalized grip on everything!  It's +1 rolled die for basically nothing.

As for machine pistols, you have better options now than the Black Scorpion now.  They are the FN 5-7C and Ares Crusader.  The FN 5-7C has 1 point of internal RC which is very valuable especially in a machine pistol.  The Ares Crusader has an extremely deep clip.  Most people like the Crusader, but I'm a FN 5-7C man myself.  Either way, it's a good idea to mod them for FA fire if you use gas vents.  I personally like suppressed fire on my concealable weapons.
Here's my recommend setup for the FN 5-7C:

Chameleon Coating [2]
Personalized Grip [1]
Underbarrel Weight [2]
Reduced Barrel [1]
Smartlink [Top]
Sound Suppressor [Barrel]
Concealable Holster [-]

Now, you have a fairly concealable (-4 to sight, +0 for patdowns) weapon for suppressed burst fire. For some reason, I can't seem to find the last point of RC I need for RC 5 without getting gas vents and losing the sound suppressor.  A 20 round magazine (happy CanRay? :P ) will give you 3 passes of fire and that's enough. The MP9 from Gun Heaven is better if you ever get that book since it's got a foregrip (which machine pistols can't get otherwise).

I like SMGs and Umaro's examples typically a lot of examples of good SMGs to choose from.  Top favorites are the Praetor (2 slotless recoil comp but forbidden) and the SuperMach 100 (if you can get the recoil for SnS spam).  But I can see the argument for sticking for assault rifles.  If you go down this route, you can make a fairly concealable SMG as your "sidearm" at least.

As for assault rifles, the Alpha is still the best.  Sadly it's forbidden.  If you want a restricted assault rifle you can keep in the truck, you'll want to mod an AK-97.  As for the Ares Alpha, I'll drop the extended clip and extended barrel.  Range modifiers are pretty lax in SR4A and the clip will last you 4 passes which is more than enough.  I'll get a chameleon coating so you don't reduce the usefulness of your ruthenium outfit discussed.  You can also drop either the personalized grip and foregrip and get a shock pad instead.  After that, you can get what you want.

Now for armor!  The big thing Arsenal introduces is stackable armor.  FFBA and Securetech PPP both add to your armor values.  FFBA not only adds to your armor value, it also counts as half encumbrance.  For example, here's a good pink mohawk (i.e. when subtly doesn't matter) outfit (thanks goes to Umaro):
Full Form Fitting Body Armor 6/2 (3/1 for encumbrance)
Securetech PPP System Shin Guards, Forearm Guards, Leg and Arm Casings, Vitals Protector, Helmet 2/6
Armor Jacket w/ Gel Packs 9/7

That gives you 17/15 armor which penalty.  You can't wear this to a party due to the armor jacket and the gel packs are restricted, but it's fairly cheap.

Your Body is high enough that it's actually hard to find non-silly outfits that are more discrete than the above.  But I'll try.  Also public acceptance of full FFBA and helmets varies from group to group.  My group views it as acceptable especially since most of the body is covered anyways and trode nets making headgear quite fashionable.  Other groups differ.

But here's my attempt at a completely discrete outfit you can wear to a party:

Half-Suit FFBA 4/1 (2/0 for encumbrance)
Vashon Island Steampunk Overcoat, Vest, Slacks, Shirt 7/7
Securetech PPP Securetech PPP System Shin Guards, Forearm Guards, Leg and Arm Casings, Vitals Protector 2/4
Moonsilver Line Scarf 1/0
Helmet (assuming there is a suitable in fashion variety)1/2

That's 15/14 armor.  Not as good as above, but quite nice.  You can get the full 17/15 above, but it requires full FFBA. 

Now for the ruthenium coating.  It really does help you hide as it gives you a -4.  Now what you can and can't coat is vague.  I'm of the opinion that something that covers most of you works and you can make a ruthenium poncho you carry around.  Others take a more strict approach limiting to armor suits and the like.  If you go with the later, I'll grab ruthenium coated full body armor at some point for sneaking.
     
Lastly always be sure to mod your armor with stuff like Chemical Protector 6 and Nonconducity 6. 

That's enough for now.  I might cover the rest of Arsenal at some point.



« Last Edit: <03-24-12/0017:09> by Tsuzua »

Ted Fast

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« Reply #26 on: <03-23-12/2301:30> »
Hot dang Tsuzua that as an excellent post.  :) But I'll be honest with you, I feel a bit doubtful about just how ruthenium coating would work with a jacket.
I could total see a Armor Jacket be a long-overcoat with a hood but wouldn't people see a couple of feet moving around?
If I get the coating should I get thermal damping too?

I still have something of a problem. Right now I 17 unspent BPs and I have 50 PBs spent on nuyen already.

A summery of what I have spent BPs on.
Attributes 200 BPs

Edge 20 BP

Positive Qualities 10 BP
Genetic Heritage (For Gen opt)

Negative Qualities +35 BP
Allergy (Uncommon, Severe) (Gold)
Genetic Heritage
Incompetent (Archery)
Incompetent (Forgery)
Incompetent (Hacking)
Scorched

Skills BP 106
Athletics Skill Group 1
Stealth Skill Group 4
Automatics 6
Blades 4
Perception 4

Contacts 12 BP
'Choppy' Lisa (Street Doc) (3, 3)
Gred Smith (Fixer) (3, 3)


What should I get guys?

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #27 on: <03-23-12/2304:16> »
You could pick up Influence skill group if not having ranks in social skills will bring the aggro hammer down on you from your GM.
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Tsuzua

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« Reply #28 on: <03-23-12/2349:57> »
Hot dang Tsuzua that as an excellent post.  :) But I'll be honest with you, I feel a bit doubtful about just how ruthenium coating would work with a jacket.
I could total see a Armor Jacket be a long-overcoat with a hood but wouldn't people see a couple of feet moving around?
If I get the coating should I get thermal damping too?
Yeah, I see you can wear something like the poncho worn in this video.  As for the feet and the like, maybe?  To be fair, ruthenium only gives you -4, it doesn't make you completely invisible.  You can also just carry an uncoated pistol and be fine.  Or be a floating head with full body armor and no helmet.  There's also the color changing mod in Attitude that is basically weak sauce ruthenium that you can just put on a normal leather jacket for a -2.  But really you can go either way.  I'll grab a ruthenium coated full body armor at some point.  You could try something like ruthenium coated bike racing armor but you'll lose armor overall. 

I always forget the thermal dampener.  It's forbidden so I wouldn't put on your everyday wear, but it's perfectly fine for pink mohawk wear when you don't care that your armor is illegal (because being where you are is illegal anyways or they'll care more about that gun pointed at them). 

As for your 17 free points, you could buy some etiquette which is most common social test you'll be "forced" to make.  Heavy Weapons 1 might not be that bad of an idea for your grenade launcher.  You'll want to use them once in a blue moon.  Then you can specialized in grenade launchers later with karma.  You can always get some more contacts.  Sadly most of the good positive qualities are in Runner's Companion.

One more point of edge is always good.  Edge is quite useful.  It's the power to turn a bad roll into an average roll by rerolling failed dice.

Now for the rest of Arsenal.  Most of the rest of Arsenal is full of nifty stuff that you don't need and can live without.  However, it can be nice or cool.  So take a look and pick up what you think is neat with your left over cash.  Sensors are handy to fill out your sensor channels for TacNets, but those are in Unwired.  One sensor worth mentioning is the Ultrawideband Radar since it look though most walls. 

There's also the infamous emotoy and empathy software.  Empathy software gives you a bonus to social skills equal to rating.  So you can grab a rating 3 commlink, empathy software 3 for fairly cheap and have +3 dice to all your social rolls.  You can also get an rating 6 emotoy which gives you 6 dice for even less.  It's just pure roll inflation and that's why most people don't like it.  If the PCs use it, NPCs should too and now it's just extra dice for everyone.  Since most social skills are contested, it doesn't change the odds any excepts faces can pwn normal dudes even harder especially if you use dudes from the books.  For that reason, I usually pretend it doesn't exist (and why Umaro's archetypes don't use it). 
« Last Edit: <03-23-12/2351:50> by Tsuzua »

sway

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« Reply #29 on: <03-24-12/0004:44> »
But I'll be honest with you, I feel a bit doubtful about just how ruthenium coating would work with a jacket.
I could total see a Armor Jacket be a long-overcoat with a hood but wouldn't people see a couple of feet moving around?

There is no reason your "longcoat" clothing as an outfit couldn't come with a pair of boots (and gloves for that matter) . It's clothing that you're wearing over your armor (and if you're wearing an armored jacket, form fitting armor, and ppp stuff... those don't come with shoes/boots anyway... booties, but not shoes/boots). I honestly see no reason why it couldn't be any ensemble you want to describe, so long as the description can feasibly be said to cover you're whole body.

Why not just say "Character's Adventuring/Mission Oufit" /w Ruthenium Polymer Coating, and so long as the description seemingly covers your whole body you should be good.

Example: Bob is a an old west aficionado thinking of himself a Sixth World Jesse James. The "clothing" Bob usually wears over his armor is a reminiscent of an outlaw cowboy's attire, including a cowboy hat, a bandana (that can be pull up over his face or worn around hims neck, full length trenchcoat, leather gloves, and cowboy-like boots. His outfit is coated with Ruthenium Polymer. 

Of course, depending on your GM you may not need to be THAT descriptive (depends on how much they want to micro-manage). I could easily see many GMs just seeing "longcoat" or "pocho" and saying that's good enough description-wise. I mean, implicitly there should be boots and such in any such ensemble, for the covering to be "complete"... but whether you need to go into detail about that on your character sheet is simply a matter of how anal retentive a GM you're dealing with (assumingly not too anal retentive, or else you probably wouldn't be playing with them as a GM at all).