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[OOC] Missions 2 - Rising Sin

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Netzgeist

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« Reply #1140 on: <04-01-13/1905:09> »
I will be completely sure that when I scrolled down and found General Grievous in one picture, I disregarded most of the page.  ;D

And if I was the GM, I would still rule that it wouldn't give any armor bonus on most situations.

Sichr

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« Reply #1141 on: <04-02-13/0338:36> »
I would scan previous editions, if I have those books with me. Not just to find some more official picture, but also to show you that bike armor protecting passengers is nothing new in SRA and it simply isn't mistake no matter how passionate your crusade against it would be. But Im tired of this. I'll just wait for the final GM decision and arrange accordingly.

Sichr

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« Reply #1142 on: <04-02-13/1516:49> »
Done in IC.

Sentinemodo

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« Reply #1143 on: <04-02-13/1807:08> »
... and Ive just bought a bike ;)

this :(

We're specifically talking about full auto fire.
If I want to target a person on (or in) vehicle the rules are clear enough.
in the full auto case, they say that damage is resisted equaly which in my book means same damage value (ie after good cover, inisde vehicle defence modifiers)
in other words, you need to hit vehicle to hit all the passengers inside.

as of now and until further notice. if a passenger is inside the vehicle (ie. car, tank, coocon inside a drone) the vehicle armor stacks with passenger armor, for motorcycle and similar, vehicle armor offer no protection.

this is what I said couple of weeks ago, after lengthy discussion relating to what consists of being inside vehicle and on vehicle.
that's point one

point two is that the rules are not clear, why would I apply vehicle armor from second last sentence if the first sentce say that if you attack passenger the vehicle is unaffected. the same set of rules fueled discussion not that much time ago.

you show me pictures of motors, that I could call tanks on their own, with the main difference being they have two wheels or three not four like the tanks proper. and yet there is a difference between being inside the vehicle and on it. if you sit on your doberman drone or just jump on it and catch something to not fall to the the ground - should I consider your behind drone armor or not? because technically you're driving it motor-style, heck you might even be jumped-in inside the VR and strapped on the drone.

point three is that I don't consider it an abuse of the rules stating that driver of a bike decide to dodge the bullets by maneuvering the vehicle instead of dodging in person, provided he doesn't do both. If you go melee you can use dodge skill or your melee/unarmed/weapon skill to reduce net hits of an attack. so there is an example of similar behaviour within the rules. it's not against the rules, it's rather their applicance in different way. If you have a mean to steer the vehicle, why should you dance on the motor instead of using it's greater speed to dodge bullets. BUT it is my interpretation of RAW.

point four is that I might be wrong in this ruling. Why did you agree (or at least voiced no objection) to my interpreatation of combat rules that allowed consecutive attacks by number of gangers going out of the smoke area? they should act on their respective initiatives, roll it and act upon it. it's clearly against RAW. point four is that since the rules are so clear, we should play by them ...let's roll back the situation, there are five gangers on the bikes, they won't use shock lances, or smoke grenades, by RAW they don't stand a chance against any three punks on the street so because they wouldn't make it past last corner being that stupid. they won't do anything surprising. just drive and and pass you by.... if you decide to attack them, you roll your dices, roll mine as well let me know how this thing ended,

lastly, it's becoming increasingly difficult to pose a challenge without increasing numbers of opponent to dozens or increasing their 'ware level to the point of hundred thousands nuyen per street level ganger with mage in every squad. I might have reached the boundaries of my GM skills and to keep things interesting (despite my interpretation of what is within RAW) I might have gone cheap with breaking the rules (by your interpretation of the same)... it's also becoming increasingly time consuming .. I know I was the one to delay for the last few days (went to my home city, visit parents, had my baby girl sick (nothing serious, but she is my one and only and I am 500 km away from our doctor)), but when I am back to the IC and I am wondering whether -2 or -3 modifer for called shot against wheel of the bike moving at 60 kph will or will not launch a discussion on raw, I just save it for the next day...

Sorry for a small delay ;)

Denver Missions
concluded 01 02 03 04 05 10 09 11
running 13
runners: Caretaker Jerry

Sichr

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« Reply #1144 on: <04-02-13/1818:23> »
...
whatever I say, doesnt matter. I cant find those 2nd and 3rd Ed books, so Ill post no refference from previous editions. Pictures are as official as they could be. Also previous editions references and scans.
HD Scorpion armor is r.4.
That means less than armor west. Even Balistic shield rating is higher.
That for the chpper that from the front leaves maybe the bikers head behind winshield visible.

BTW: RAW it is forbiden to use drones as personal carriers.
Not rolling initiative was your call, and I have other things in my life than argue every time you make a decission as GM.
I reacted on your OOC text in IC, where you said that you have difficulties with resolving the attack. IMO this happens when you are trying to create your own rules in system like shadowrun. I`ve just tried to make it easier...by following the rules.
As for the challenge...I recall some characters dying during last run, I also recall us being hardly pressed before...almost every time we came to the conflict. Even if we dont loose lives too often, we have great material expenses, fractions pissed off on every side, even Eagles watching for some of us. We never visited Sioux sector, where Omar would feel like home since their mentality...and standard street gear...is on the same level as in the mercenary camp. We have no tail, no snipers, no attacking drones, no boobytrapped fridges and poisoned food...but sure as hell three professionals with our level of equipement and skill investment we are abe to deal with five gangers...even when protected by bike armor...
BTW even armor has its maximum related to the body rating, its not like we have flotila or armor 20 combat skateboards...
« Last Edit: <04-02-13/1913:27> by Sichr »

snake_eyes

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« Reply #1145 on: <04-08-13/1547:08> »
You guys ok out there? No postings in several days. Not like you.

Xzylvador

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« Reply #1146 on: <04-08-13/1721:33> »
Present.

Netzgeist

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« Reply #1147 on: <04-08-13/1823:26> »
Present, and half-alive.

farothel

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« Reply #1148 on: <04-09-13/0126:09> »
I'm still here, but having not much to do right now.  :(
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute"

Sichr

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Re:

« Reply #1149 on: <04-09-13/0335:57> »
Present.

Sentinemodo

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« Reply #1150 on: <04-09-13/0337:14> »
present somewhat.

sorry for delay.
Sorry for a small delay ;)

Denver Missions
concluded 01 02 03 04 05 10 09 11
running 13
runners: Caretaker Jerry

Sichr

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« Reply #1151 on: <04-09-13/0408:56> »
And sorry if my "lawful ruleslawyer" has been too disruptive. Not fun to anyone, including me. There are more important things we have in common. Like ... and such ;D

Sentinemodo

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« Reply #1152 on: <04-23-13/1205:48> »
guys,

lets start with I am sorry...

I've been having real bad weeks. There have been work related issues, travel difficulties, family health problems and ingame tension. I don't think I understood how much toll had it took on me, and how irritated and touchy I was (was hopefully).

luckily, my family is either healthy, getting better or dealing with their illness better then expected.
double luck is that my holidays had ended, work issues are being solved.
tough thing is that my wife asked me to be a little more at home when I actually am at home, meaning I'll be posting less often.

I'm posting this head up for you to know that I am still around (and you might have seen me posting in Kour game). I haven't posted here as I needed some time to process the latest discussion and to overcome vent reaction and be constructive in resolving the situation.

bottom line is that I do feel the need to adapt the rules given in a books to the situation sometimes, as much as I am open for out-of-the box ideas from you. I do make some calls that are optional, extrapolational or clearly contradictional to the ones given in text. I try to play by raw as much as possible and I was and intent to remain as open to discussion on it as ever.
 
in this current context it means that both of the calls I made will be in place:
1. if the vehicle is considered to be a motorcycle it will not as a rule of thumb provide any additional armor to the passenger. the rule of thumb means that if there will be additional armor, passenger protection, rigger cocoon or other mods installed this is subject to change. similarly removing two wheels from a car does not make it a motorcycle and thus it still provide armored protection)
2. if the driver of the car is shot at and can avoid the bullets by making a maneuver with a vehicle, he can do so instead of using dodge (he/she gets all the remaining modifers as well, it's just other skill being used) - if he'll get hit anyway he will need to make another roll for avoid crashing similarly to the knockout roll.

Sichr, I understand your desire to play by raw or as close to it as possible. I think the game should be a fun experience and fight over every call are opposite to it. let us have fun in IC or barring that let's hang out in OOC, it's been silent long enough.
Sorry for a small delay ;)

Denver Missions
concluded 01 02 03 04 05 10 09 11
running 13
runners: Caretaker Jerry

Sichr

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« Reply #1153 on: <04-23-13/1331:41> »
You know, when I was leaving my office today I was trying to turn of my computer with light switch. Lets not talk about work and such things. :D

Xzylvador

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« Reply #1154 on: <04-23-13/1640:29> »
You know I'm here. Though I'm dealing with RL stuff myself and activity and post quality can vary from 'few & short' to 'lots & super-mega-awesome' on a daily basis.

Good to hear you & your family are doing better!