[KommissarK]

In my experience, the value of edge seems to be based the most on how the GM is running the game. If you're looking at a guaranteed 5+ combat encounters in a session, then yes, edge is less useful. There will be too many "this is an important roll" moments. If we're talking fewer combats, or a higher openness to a well thought out plan, there easily could just be 3-5 rolls in a game session.

I have in fact gone through an entire session of SR play making only 4-5 rolls. Edge easily could of made my day a whole lot easier.

Now, to the OP.
How much BP are we talking about, sounds like only 1 or 2?

Do you have:
-Attributes (if you have 10+ bp leftover, consider this)
-Active Skills (if you're happy with your contacts, maybe you can take a specialization)
-Knowledge Skills (if you can't find anything good at all, you could just burn it on a new knowledge)
-Qualities (could buy off negatives)
-Contacts (my money is on you forgetting contacts, nobody has spare bp leftover)
-Gear (got your fake SINs in order? Have a better than squatter lifestyle? Maybe you could get more fake SINs for later)
-Spells/Complex forms
-Bound foci

[All4BigGuns]

In my experience, the value of edge seems to be based the most on how the GM is running the game. If you're looking at a guaranteed 5+ combat encounters in a session, then yes, edge is less useful. There will be too many "this is an important roll" moments. If we're talking fewer combats, or a higher openness to a well thought out plan, there easily could just be 3-5 rolls in a game session.

I have in fact gone through an entire session of SR play making only 4-5 rolls. Edge easily could of made my day a whole lot easier.

I still say it's criminally overpriced for being a limited resource as it is. It's been even worse than that for me a couple of times where it seemed the GM running gave every enemy an unlimited Edge pool and Edge'd every single roll they made (PC pools remained at whatever was bought).

[KommissarK]

Well technically, the enemy do have edge equal to their group rating, so if its a top notch group you're fighting... Of course that pool is also shared if I recall. Still, a rating 6 group throwing 6 edge around is pretty scary.

But yes, it is a pretty heavy cost. Once again though, if you're at a table where the heavy focus is on RP than tactical combat, high edge is usually an excellent thing, as passing that needed con test, or dodging that one shot are all you pretty much have to do.

Its just on a GM by GM basis. Current game I'm in, we reset edge every distinct "run."

I would argue that if you do know you're in that style of game, then it can help you. In a more generic sense of character planning though, it is something to be cautious about. Still, seeing 1 edge characters makes me sad.

[Critias]

It's unfortunate that a cheating GM has colored your view of how an important game mechanic is supposed to work. 

Edge conversation aside -- I really AM curious about this character, now, and wondering how one can manage to have left over BP. 

[Henzington]

Exactly Edge should be an extremely rare quaulity for npcs because its so powerful and they rarely are involved in the game so they only will be using it against the players.   The whole idea of edge is that its the one ace in the hole the players have against most npc.  I generally make my npcs about the same skillwise for a challenge but edge is reserved for stuff like prime runners.

[All4BigGuns]

It's unfortunate that a cheating GM has colored your view of how an important game mechanic is supposed to work.

It has gotten a little better with that one, but Edge still isn't that useful for PCs since every enemy (including "extras") still has their own distinct Edge, and if the PC Edges, then the enemy pretty much always counter-Edges (pretty much making it worthless to do).

[Critias]

It's unfortunate that a cheating GM has colored your view of how an important game mechanic is supposed to work.

It has gotten a little better with that one, but Edge still isn't that useful for PCs since every enemy (including "extras") still has their own distinct Edge, and if the PC Edges, then the enemy pretty much always counter-Edges (pretty much making it worthless to do).

I...still disagree.  It sounds like your GM is heavily house-ruling (and/or cheating, it's hard to tell), and that's coloring your perceptions of an otherwise extraordinarily useful statistic. 

[groduick]

What do you do with leftover BP?  Knowing it's there drives me crazy!

Give it to me? My characters are always broke on BP....

[FastJack]

It's unfortunate that a cheating GM has colored your view of how an important game mechanic is supposed to work.

It has gotten a little better with that one, but Edge still isn't that useful for PCs since every enemy (including "extras") still has their own distinct Edge, and if the PC Edges, then the enemy pretty much always counter-Edges (pretty much making it worthless to do).

I...still disagree.  It sounds like your GM is heavily house-ruling (and/or cheating, it's hard to tell), and that's coloring your perceptions of an otherwise extraordinarily useful statistic. 

I have to agree with Critias. Unless the NPC is a Prime Runner, they shouldn't have distinct Edge. Normally, Edge is pulled for the entire group of NPCs just so this doesn't happen.

[Crash_00]

Basically it comes down to what kind of enemies you're running against.

Mooks are going to have group edge. Meaning that whatever their professional rating is (1or 2 for corp sec, 3 or 4 for law enforcement, and 5 to 6 for elite security and military units), that's how much edge they have to split among their group. Depending on GM, they may split a large group of enemies into subgroups for this (for instance if their are two dozen SWAT members closing in, they might split them into three groups of 8 for sharing), but even that isn't really overpowering.

Elite NPCs, as in on their own unique, such as rival runners and movers and shakers in the world have their own edge.

I don't really think it should be used rarely for mooks or elites, after all they usually will end up burning some of it just to not be D.E.D dead at the end of the fight (assuming the runners act like stereotypical runners). I think what usually colors this view is that a lot of players put little to no value in edge, never use edge, and view it as a waste because in all reality they've never bothered with it beyond saving a point to burn for a hand of god case. Likewise, a lot of players only see edge as a way to reroll failures. Which is only one single use for it. If that's all it's used for, the rating doesn't matter beyond times you can use it, but using it to add dice a higher rating is always very very good.

I've got to agree with the others though. Saying that it's not worth it because a GM severely cheated with it (or it's believed the GM was cheating with it), can be applied to any mechanic if a GM uses it to cheat. A bad GM does not make a resource bad. It makes the bad GM bad.

I can slightly see how it can be irritating to be counter edged in some cases, but if you think about it from a roleplaying point of view, there are times when it absolutely makes sense. That Johnson meeting the runners gets his bonus (and promotions) based on the bottom line. Ya, he's probably going to be edging his negotiation rolls since that is 100% his only role for the company, get a good deal on his deniable assets. So, is the Johnson counter edging, or are the players counter edging (or does it really matter since both uses make absolute sense). Same goes for enemy mages that edge their counterspelling roles. As a sec/support mage, your #1 job is to cover your team astrally. The main part of that is keep astral things from ganking them. Most spells can easily be one shot stoppers if left unchecked, trying to stop them in their tracks makes sense, but it uses up the part of the mook groups edge pool so that's one less edge for dodging, resisting, composure, etc. Then again, this really again boils down to the GM actually roleplaying enemies and following the rules. If every single mook can edge every single test, you're probably going up against Professional Rating 18 super-borgs and that corp is really skynet in disguise. Time to jump ship or augment up and fight for the machines baby. 

[All4BigGuns]

Basically it comes down to what kind of enemies you're running against.

Mooks are going to have group edge. Meaning that whatever their professional rating is (1or 2 for corp sec, 3 or 4 for law enforcement, and 5 to 6 for elite security and military units), that's how much edge they have to split among their group. Depending on GM, they may split a large group of enemies into subgroups for this (for instance if their are two dozen SWAT members closing in, they might split them into three groups of 8 for sharing), but even that isn't really overpowering.

Elite NPCs, as in on their own unique, such as rival runners and movers and shakers in the world have their own edge.

I don't really think it should be used rarely for mooks or elites, after all they usually will end up burning some of it just to not be D.E.D dead at the end of the fight (assuming the runners act like stereotypical runners). I think what usually colors this view is that a lot of players put little to no value in edge, never use edge, and view it as a waste because in all reality they've never bothered with it beyond saving a point to burn for a hand of god case. Likewise, a lot of players only see edge as a way to reroll failures. Which is only one single use for it. If that's all it's used for, the rating doesn't matter beyond times you can use it, but using it to add dice a higher rating is always very very good.

I've got to agree with the others though. Saying that it's not worth it because a GM severely cheated with it (or it's believed the GM was cheating with it), can be applied to any mechanic if a GM uses it to cheat. A bad GM does not make a resource bad. It makes the bad GM bad.

I can slightly see how it can be irritating to be counter edged in some cases, but if you think about it from a roleplaying point of view, there are times when it absolutely makes sense. That Johnson meeting the runners gets his bonus (and promotions) based on the bottom line. Ya, he's probably going to be edging his negotiation rolls since that is 100% his only role for the company, get a good deal on his deniable assets. So, is the Johnson counter edging, or are the players counter edging (or does it really matter since both uses make absolute sense). Same goes for enemy mages that edge their counterspelling roles. As a sec/support mage, your #1 job is to cover your team astrally. The main part of that is keep astral things from ganking them. Most spells can easily be one shot stoppers if left unchecked, trying to stop them in their tracks makes sense, but it uses up the part of the mook groups edge pool so that's one less edge for dodging, resisting, composure, etc. Then again, this really again boils down to the GM actually roleplaying enemies and following the rules. If every single mook can edge every single test, you're probably going up against Professional Rating 18 super-borgs and that corp is really skynet in disguise. Time to job ship or augment up and fight for the machines baby. 

No it does NOT make sense from an RP point of view. From the RP point of view, the opponent does not know that you've spent Edge, and thus should not counter-Edge.

[Morg]

If you have your character the way that you want consider changing one of your contacts to a group with the Advanced Contact rules in Runner's Companion pg 123

on the edge derailment..

There are some tests that edge is not used up. Characters in a suppressive fire zone that can't stay in cover get Reaction + Edge to avoid getting hit. Another example is if you take a Heavy wound and your GM is using severe wounds optional rule in Augmentation pg 120 etc.

[Crash_00]

No it does NOT make sense from an RP point of view. From the RP point of view, the opponent does not know that you've spent Edge, and thus should not counter-Edge.

You're using the term "counter-edge" to mean the enemy is only spending edge because the player did, when in a RP point of view, the enemy is spending edge to survive, get a better deal, etc. Yes, it makes no sense if the bad GM only uses edge when the players do. As has already been stated, a bad gm is a bad gm.

However, if the GM is spending edge at the appropriate time for the enemy: not getting guts blown over the sidewalk, making an excellent deal for their corporation, trying to keep the enemy mage astrally constipated, etc., it's not the case at all. If the enemy would have spent the edge, regardless of the player spending the edge, then it's one hundred percent makes sense. You seem to be saying to the effect: "Any time the GM spends edge on an action that directly affects/negates my action that I spend edge on, it's evil super doody counter-edging," when in reality it should be closer to, "Any time the GM only spent edge because I spent edge, he's being a jackass."

The two situations are fundamentally different. One is a simple case of NPCs striving to survive, and their are people too that need to be roleplayed like people. Sure they might appear as Mook 16, Mook 17, and Chinese Mook in the credits, but it doesn't mean they should be static and have their actions simplified to shoot, dodge, die with no thought of edge in the equation. The other case is bad gm jackassery and bordering on complete douchecachooery.

There are many times that I can plan out an adventure and actually write in exactly what point certain NPCs will be using edge (Johnsons for Negotiations, Sec. Guards for Perception or Dodging while holding a position, Mage's for Counterspelling and Banishing, etc.) in my notes for the group tactics. How does it go from just fine to horrible because a player spent edge, when the spending of mook edge was pre-planned and makes sense given their job/motivation/life?

[All4BigGuns]

No it does NOT make sense from an RP point of view. From the RP point of view, the opponent does not know that you've spent Edge, and thus should not counter-Edge.

You're using the term "counter-edge" to mean the enemy is only spending edge because the player did, when in a RP point of view, the enemy is spending edge to survive, get a better deal, etc. Yes, it makes no sense if the bad GM only uses edge when the players do. As has already been stated, a bad gm is a bad gm.

However, if the GM is spending edge at the appropriate time for the enemy: not getting guts blown over the sidewalk, making an excellent deal for their corporation, trying to keep the enemy mage astrally constipated, etc., it's not the case at all. If the enemy would have spent the edge, regardless of the player spending the edge, then it's one hundred percent makes sense. You seem to be saying to the effect: "Any time the GM spends edge on an action that directly affects/negates my action that I spend edge on, it's evil super doody counter-edging," when in reality it should be closer to, "Any time the GM only spent edge because I spent edge, he's being a jackass."

The two situations are fundamentally different. One is a simple case of NPCs striving to survive, and their are people too that need to be roleplayed like people. Sure they might appear as Mook 16, Mook 17, and Chinese Mook in the credits, but it doesn't mean they should be static and have their actions simplified to shoot, dodge, die with no thought of edge in the equation. The other case is bad gm jackassery and bordering on complete douchecachooery.

There are many times that I can plan out an adventure and actually write in exactly what point certain NPCs will be using edge (Johnsons for Negotiations, Sec. Guards for Perception or Dodging while holding a position, Mage's for Counterspelling and Banishing, etc.) in my notes for the group tactics. How does it go from just fine to horrible because a player spent edge, when the spending of mook edge was pre-planned and makes sense given their job/motivation/life?

Well, when I run, the ONLY opponents that get Edge are ones that are basically the "prime runner" equivalent.  I am tempted to start giving a pool of no more than two to be drawn on by ALL of those in a given session (not encounter), which happens to be how I feel NPC Edge should be.

[Mason]

Basically it comes down to what kind of enemies you're running against.

Mooks are going to have group edge. Meaning that whatever their professional rating is (1or 2 for corp sec, 3 or 4 for law enforcement, and 5 to 6 for elite security and military units), that's how much edge they have to split among their group. Depending on GM, they may split a large group of enemies into subgroups for this (for instance if their are two dozen SWAT members closing in, they might split them into three groups of 8 for sharing), but even that isn't really overpowering.

Elite NPCs, as in on their own unique, such as rival runners and movers and shakers in the world have their own edge.

I don't really think it should be used rarely for mooks or elites, after all they usually will end up burning some of it just to not be D.E.D dead at the end of the fight (assuming the runners act like stereotypical runners). I think what usually colors this view is that a lot of players put little to no value in edge, never use edge, and view it as a waste because in all reality they've never bothered with it beyond saving a point to burn for a hand of god case. Likewise, a lot of players only see edge as a way to reroll failures. Which is only one single use for it. If that's all it's used for, the rating doesn't matter beyond times you can use it, but using it to add dice a higher rating is always very very good.

I've got to agree with the others though. Saying that it's not worth it because a GM severely cheated with it (or it's believed the GM was cheating with it), can be applied to any mechanic if a GM uses it to cheat. A bad GM does not make a resource bad. It makes the bad GM bad.

I can slightly see how it can be irritating to be counter edged in some cases, but if you think about it from a roleplaying point of view, there are times when it absolutely makes sense. That Johnson meeting the runners gets his bonus (and promotions) based on the bottom line. Ya, he's probably going to be edging his negotiation rolls since that is 100% his only role for the company, get a good deal on his deniable assets. So, is the Johnson counter edging, or are the players counter edging (or does it really matter since both uses make absolute sense). Same goes for enemy mages that edge their counterspelling roles. As a sec/support mage, your #1 job is to cover your team astrally. The main part of that is keep astral things from ganking them. Most spells can easily be one shot stoppers if left unchecked, trying to stop them in their tracks makes sense, but it uses up the part of the mook groups edge pool so that's one less edge for dodging, resisting, composure, etc. Then again, this really again boils down to the GM actually roleplaying enemies and following the rules. If every single mook can edge every single test, you're probably going up against Professional Rating 18 super-borgs and that corp is really skynet in disguise. Time to job ship or augment up and fight for the machines baby. 

No it does NOT make sense from an RP point of view. From the RP point of view, the opponent does not know that you've spent Edge, and thus should not counter-Edge.

No, he means from an RP perspective, the NPC would Edge whether the player does or not.