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[OOC] Liberated Wealth

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Crossbow

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« Reply #465 on: <10-02-12/1119:25> »
Okay we need a full stop right now. 

I am friends with Mirikon in the RealWorld, so I talked to him about this and so far between Serious not addressing my question at all (again) and what I was told by Miri, which was essentially the GM was feeling badgered and (My opinion) overwhelmed, I am not happy with continueing the game either.

So either some stuff gets said, or you guys roll on without me also.

No harm, no foul either way, but I gotta make this stand.

Thvor

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« Reply #466 on: <10-02-12/1233:13> »
So, we've lost our mage (who seems to have just disappeared), and now we're loosing our transport/air support? I'm sorry, forget what I said last night about still having fun.

From what I've seen here on the OOC thread, Mirikon's leaving because Serious is upset that his van has landing racks for both a medium-sized drone and a large-sized one, something which is allowed by the RAW--the van gets 20 mod slots, and the racks total up to 9--but which the GM doesn't think makes realistic sense. And you know what? I can see Serious's point--we've got a large van with a small helicopter attached. What's that look like, realistically? Probably pretty big and bulky--can it fit under a normal overpass? Or did adding the drone racks require taking over the passenger compartment, in which case Smiley, Hank, Rybka, and Teddy shouldn't have been able to all pile in when they got the box in the first place?

But the right time to have this discussion is NOT when the team is in the middle of combat. Mirikon has taken several actions based on his understanding of Tach's van's capabilities, and the team has also done stuff on the assumption that we had close air support and available transportation. If we lose Tach now, then things get really ugly, really fast.

Put another way: the proper time to object to Tach's van's modifications was in character creation. Since the van received GM approval at that point, it should be held as part of the game as is. We're not playing Calvinball here.

As players, we need to be able to trust our GM. If Serious is going to object to Tach's van now, that goes directly against that trust, and I'm not willing to continue.
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SeriousOne338

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« Reply #467 on: <10-02-12/1438:44> »
I am overwhelmed. Here is the problem I have, at the rate the team is going I would need to bring military grade weaponry, and I'd have to start playing hard ball. This is not to make it a challenge for the team, this is the escalation from your actions.

Look at the assists you have and have been using:
-]A Gun ship (Roto Drone)
-A Tank
-A Reaper Drone (My issue with this coming out of the van is both it fits, and the reaper does not have Vtol abilities so I told him in order for it take off it would take 5 turns to be on station to shoot)

What do you expect me to do? Say nothing keep throwing minions who would be turned into crispy bits of meat? then ask yourself the question what is Knight Errant going to do? Throw beat cops at you or call in tactical missiles, drones, HTR, and the kitchen sink.
« Last Edit: <10-02-12/1440:49> by SeriousOne338 »
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Marak1972

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« Reply #468 on: <10-03-12/1001:34> »
Its understandable. If things escalte that way then the threat level rises with HRT or worse. You think in the SR universe the 'LAW" and corps wouldn't be touvhy feely they'd nail it hard
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Thvor

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« Reply #469 on: <10-03-12/1032:06> »
Yes, Tach's wanton destruction should be drawing extra KE attention; this could be especially problematic since he has the "signature" quality. It's one of his biggest weaknesses. Other levers you can use against him, based on a cursory glance at his character sheet, are his warehouse (esp. his neighbors), his lack of experience dealing with humans (lots of room for creativity here), and his reliance on the matrix to do anything (an inherent limitation of any AI character--a good area jamming shuts lots of things down).

My point is, you as the GM have more options than just big guns that do a lot of damage. Every character has weaknesses; it's your job to put us in situations that challenge us, while maintaining a certain amount of realism. Having the goons manage to prep a massive ambush--including an exploding van and rooftop-mounted anti-tank weaponry--at a restaurant that we stopped at randomly goes against that realism.
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SeriousOne338

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« Reply #470 on: <10-03-12/1223:30> »
they've been following you for some time.
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Thvor

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« Reply #471 on: <10-03-12/1323:50> »
they've been following you for some time.

That's what you said when I questioned it at first, and I was willing to roll with it because I was having fun with the game.

But my main point is that you shouldn't be trying to come up with a big enough can opener to take Tach down; that's playing to his strong suit, and unless you escalate to super-high levels, he's going to be able to hold his own. Play to his weaknesses...he's got uninvited guests regularly showing up in his warehouse; surely that can lead to problems. He's hyper-sensitive about damage to his drones/van; play off of that (for instance, what would his reaction be if someone randomly keyed his van?). He's a media junkie--what if he received an invite (real or not) to compete on his favorite game show?

Combat's definitely fun, but it doesn't need to be the only way players are put in danger..
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Crossbow

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« Reply #472 on: <10-03-12/1522:34> »
I will say it again, I am enjoying the game.

I even understand the need to address Mirikon's character, there are several things I would have had a problem with had I been the GM.  There is definitely a cartain level of power creep in Tach, but it is a self correcting problem, he can't afford to solve every encouter with a missle, literally.

Besides that though, I am having trouble with a trust factor and gm vs player competitiveness, and I really feel like the arbitrary and and heavy handed adjustment of the power level in opposition is a factor in that.


SeriousOne338

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« Reply #473 on: <10-03-12/1545:40> »
Ok Fine if you want to continue the game I'll run it and I won't voice objections.  But here it is I don't think the game will be much fun for anyone else except Mirikon, he's going to steam roll everything I could throw at the team because he's basically a power house. As for screwing with the character in other ways that is really really hard to do in game on a run, we'd need to complete the run and then I'd have a chance of causing trouble but that's not possible now.


Here is what I wanted to write but sarcasm does not translate well to text:

I won't ask how his van works, HELL I WONT try and figure out how he got a predator VTOL without paying for it or on his sheet, I WONT even try and work with him I'll just blindly follow the rampage of destruction.

So at this time I don't know what to do, I'd like to keep running this game but any time I try and voice a concern I get smashed down.
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Marak1972

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« Reply #474 on: <10-08-12/0817:24> »
ok just to clarify. Is this game dead?? If so sad troll  :-\
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SeriousOne338

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« Reply #475 on: <10-08-12/1122:26> »
I don't know seeing that Thvor, CrossBow and Mirikon have dropped out so that leaves a single Player.
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Marak1972

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« Reply #476 on: <10-08-12/1138:12> »
Oi well I was having fun at least. No worries I is a big troll. I'll find other work lol
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Thvor

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« Reply #477 on: <10-08-12/1444:37> »
...except Mirikon, he's going to steam roll everything I could throw at the team because he's basically a power house. As for screwing with the character in other ways that is really really hard to do in game on a run...

Serious, I've been sitting on this post for a while, because I'm not sure how to write it in such a way that doesn't come off as preachy. That's not my intent; I'm just trying to help you get past what appears to be a major stumbling block for you. I've been having fun in this game, and I think you can be a great GM--but you seem to periodically get caught up in the mindset of "damage = danger", which limits your approaches to things.

Tach is a really strong character in a straight-up firefight, sure; his potential damage output is scary. Rybka's social interaction skills are equally out there. And this guy, from a new game that you're starting up, has a ridiculous armor pool; how you're going to scratch him at all is beyond me. My point is that SR characters (heck, characters from pretty much any RPG out there other than Mouse Guard) are generally over-powered compared to standard opposition. Add them together as a team, where everyone's weaknesses are matched by someone else's strengths1, and it can be a real challenge for the GM to come up with a realistic situation which actually contains some level of challenge for the characters. It's relatively easy to respond to a strong team by strengthening the opposition, increasing their numbers and/or giving them better equipment, but that approach can also come across as ham-handed.

A more challenging response, though ultimately (in my opinion and experience) more rewarding for players and the GM, is to come up with situations for the characters which play off of their weaknesses. Give them a choice where the "correct" answer isn't obvious (I think you were doing this well where we weren't sure about whether to hand the book over to Mr. Johnson), or where a character's natural tendencies (based off of their qualities & backstories) would lead them to do something which might not be to the team's benefit2. These are the moments where good roleplaying really shines out, and can lead to some very intense situations3.

And you don't need to wait for a break in the combat for pulling something on a character--in fact, sometimes the danger can be amplified by doing something in the middle of combat. For instance, how would Tach have responded during the diner brawl if he'd gotten an alert from his warehouse's security system about a potential break-in? Or what would have happened if the goons had aimed a directional jammer at his tank drone (instead of the anti-vehicle missile)4?

All that said, I am really sad to see this game fall apart. I was having fun, and the roleplaying was great5. Maybe we could take a few days, catch our breaths, and start back up (potentially with a wave of the GM's hand to change the scene away from the diner)?


1 Of course, if you manage to get the team to split up.... ;)
2 Hank had a couple moments like this--first, when he tried to go solo against the gangers who were spying on them in the warehouse, and then when he tried to run away from the diner with the book, leaving his teammates to find their own ways out of the mess.
3 I'm really curious what the team would have done if Hank had gotten away......
4 Remember, as an AI, he uses his sensors to see, in addition to controlling all his drones; this could have ended up doing more damage than a missile ever could.
5 I liked the sexual tension between Smiley and Rybka, and agreed with Hank that the two of them could cause real problems if they couldn't keep their relationship professional. And having a big bumbling troll for my elf to play off of was fun. And Tach's tri-d induced paranoia had lots of potential...
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SeriousOne338

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« Reply #478 on: <10-08-12/1534:58> »
All that said, I am really sad to see this game fall apart. I was having fun, and the roleplaying was great5. Maybe we could take a few days, catch our breaths, and start back up (potentially with a wave of the GM's hand to change the scene away from the diner)?
I would be willing to do that.
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Marak1972

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« Reply #479 on: <10-08-12/1745:10> »
Me too ....wait bumbling troll : :o 8)
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