[Mirikon]

If I'm going with a light pistol, I've yet to see anything better than the Sakura Fubuki. However, I have been playing with the idea of a Mage/Heavy weapons guy...

[Carmody]

Just some small remarks:
   - the 2 last pages do not have a page number (nitpicking I know)
   - In the last pages table Renraku is unfortunately spelled Reraku (n missing)

[Hermes]

Wow.  A book of gun porn. 

[hobgoblin]

If I'm going with a light pistol, I've yet to see anything better than the Sakura Fubuki. However, I have been playing with the idea of a Mage/Heavy weapons guy...

Sounds a bit redundant.

[Mirikon]

If I'm going with a light pistol, I've yet to see anything better than the Sakura Fubuki. However, I have been playing with the idea of a Mage/Heavy weapons guy...

Sounds a bit redundant.

Depends on the spell loadout. Think, for a moment, on a mage who has a healthy array of Health, Detection, Illusion, and Manipulation spells, and uses a SA Assault Cannon and spirits for offense. For astral battles, he uses spirits and a weapon focus.

[CanRay]

Troll Magician.  I mean, hell, an AK-97 looks like a toy in their hands anyhow. 

[Ryo]

I have two main nitpicks for this book.

1: Why is there an SA battle rifle? I know there are people who think Battle Rifles should use Longarms instead of Automatics, and I for one can't understand why a weapon that can't even burst fire would use the Automatics skill.

2: Why oh why was it decided that the compiled tables at the end would be sorted by manufacturer, instead of weapon category? This makes the tables basically useless, since I have to scan back through the book to find out what's a light pistol, heavy pistol, smg, shotgun, assault rifle, etc etc.

[Mäx]

1: Why is there an SA battle rifle? I know there are people who think Battle Rifles should use Longarms instead of Automatics, and I for one can't understand why a weapon that can't even burst fire would use the Automatics skill.

Why do you know all of a sudden have a problem with this, when we have had one since the start.

[Wakshaani]

See, I don't even think Battle RIfles should exist, but, I'm a negative Nancy on this one.

[JustADude]

See, I don't even think Battle RIfles should exist, but, I'm a negative Nancy on this one.

They should, because they exist "for realsies." The problem is that, in SR4 terms, a Battle Rifle is essentially a Sports Rifles that has a bigger ammo capacity and has been modded for Burst Fire.

Battle Rifles should have gone in the Longarms skill, same way burst-fire Heavy Pistols and Light Pistols go in the Pistols skill.

[CanRay]

I know a lot of folks that use Battle Rifles as their Moose Rifles.

Of course, those are bolt action, and were Battle Rifles in WWI/WWII/Korea... 

[Critias]

See, I don't even think Battle RIfles should exist, but, I'm a negative Nancy on this one.

They should, because they exist "for realsies." The problem is that, in SR4 terms, a Battle Rifle is essentially a Sports Rifles that has a bigger ammo capacity and has been modded for Burst Fire.

Battle Rifles should have gone in the Longarms skill, same way burst-fire Heavy Pistols and Light Pistols go in the Pistols skill.

The problem with that argument -- and, in my opinion the problem with introducing them at all -- is that some of those "for realsies" battle rifles from real life had already been statted up (in 1989) as Assault Rifles.  They were the good-damage Assault Rifles, but they were AR's all the same.  You just had to kind of shrug and handwave it away, or (as a buddy did in SR3) stat up your own custom monstrosities and pretend they were general-issue.

Wedging in Battle Rifles after the fact, not just several years into SR4, but 20+ years into the game as a whole, just highlights how abstract (and a little silly) the weapon categories are, because you try to fit in a weird one that's not only somewhere between two of them...but is, well, better than either (more damage and range than Assault Rifles, better rate of fire and recoil than Sport Rifles).

It was a hornet's nest that I don't think needed to get poked, in my humble opinion.

[JustADude]

See, I don't even think Battle RIfles should exist, but, I'm a negative Nancy on this one.

They should, because they exist "for realsies." The problem is that, in SR4 terms, a Battle Rifle is essentially a Sports Rifles that has a bigger ammo capacity and has been modded for Burst Fire.

Battle Rifles should have gone in the Longarms skill, same way burst-fire Heavy Pistols and Light Pistols go in the Pistols skill.

The problem with that argument -- and, in my opinion the problem with introducing them at all -- is that some of those "for realsies" battle rifles from real life had already been statted up (in 1989) as Assault Rifles.  They were the good-damage Assault Rifles, but they were AR's all the same.  You just had to kind of shrug and handwave it away, or (as a buddy did in SR3) stat up your own custom monstrosities and pretend they were general-issue.

Wedging in Battle Rifles after the fact, not just several years into SR4, but 20+ years into the game as a whole, just highlights how abstract (and a little silly) the weapon categories are, because you try to fit in a weird one that's not only somewhere between two of them...but is, well, better than either (more damage and range than Assault Rifles, better rate of fire and recoil than Sport Rifles).

It was a hornet's nest that I don't think needed to get poked, in my humble opinion.

Well, when you put it like that, I can't help but agree.

[Sichr]

+1.
My team would be eager for better firepower, well they maintain it by modifying existing weapons, BattleRiffles are viewed as unnecesary piece of crap.
Like...yeah, it is science fiction. So lets create some futuristic weapons...by adding more effective propelant...

Sounds like lack of crativity also...
Instead of exploiting new ways...Laser, Plasma weapons, Elecromagnetic weapons, Rail guns, Nanotechnologic warfare and Magicaly augmented "Manatech" weapons etc, even milspec weapons are still based on firing pieces of lead. I know, even in Battletech machineguns are still part of the game, well...the most advanced weapon system here is nothing but SA cannon with built-in radio. Not even fluff about its compatibility with Military grade armors, about possible acessories that make it work beter on the battlefield, standard modifications, possible ammunition selection. Also more versatile weapons, nice try made with Steyr AUG CSL (if I remember correctly) and HK XM30 (well it was nice piece of gear but its versatility was not so aparent due to firearms rules)...but that was all. Not even HK XM 307/312, todays advanced heavy weapon system, didnt made it to any source book

Also...they created guided ammo for guns. I can see that the first application of such priciples would be Minigrenades and High caliber rounds, possibly that Assault cannon. But it seems that the light ammo was created this way at first. Maybe developers do like challenge, because IMO it is much easier to add some technological devices and upgrades to 40mm grenade, than to 0,22 bullet.

Well, I dont think anyone from CGL would really care for this call. As far as they get their money for what they are oferring, there is no need for inovations (or correcting flaws and glitches a few NERDS had pointed out)

[Critias]

Well, I dont think anyone from CGL would really care for this call. As far as they get their money for what they are oferring, there is no need for inovations (or correcting flaws and glitches a few NERDS had pointed out)

You know, you were doing pretty well until you decided to close this post like you did.